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Hannah: Welcome to Happily Ever After the podcast, which seems to talk about all sorts of different things. But one listener described it as the place where we talk about what everyone else is thinking, but maybe not saying out loud. I am your host, Hannah Harvey. I'm a writer and a parenting blogger at MumsDays dot com. That's M.U.M.S.D.A.Y.S dot com. If you wouldn't mind subscribing and leaving a review, that would be amazing because it basically means more people can find the podcast. And I also would really, really, really love to hear from you. So please could you contact me through Instagram @Mumsdays? You can message me anything, really, but your stories of life and heartbreak or any thoughts you might have on the episode or any questions you want answering. And as always, you can find the details from this episode in the show notes.
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Hannah: Welcome to Happily Ever After. It's me, Hannah Harvey. And today I'm back with Katie. Hi, Katie.
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Katie: Hello.
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Hannah: Now, we haven't fully prepped this one, but basically we decided since it's like five days to Christmas, we'd talk about the actual Christmas, and Katie came up with the word divorcemas, which is disgusting, But we're going with it.
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Katie: I'm not taking the blame for this. This hardly seems fair.
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Hannah: You definitely said that. She pooh poohed my idea of sexmas, by the way, saying that wasn't a thing, but.
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Katie: I didn't want to do sexmas. Let's do divorcemas.
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Hannah: Okay, fine. So basically, we're just talking about what you do at Christmas when you're splitting up. So my experience in this conversation comes from have I mentioned it? I've been going through a divorce.
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Katie: Now, what was that again? You're divorced, are you?
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Hannah: I've just gone through a divorce. Yeah. And Katie's perspective is her parents were divorced. So you've been the child of divorcemas.
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Katie: I've been the child of divorcemas. My parents got divorced when I was about 11.
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Hannah: Yeah. So you've done the whole what happens at Christmas? So we're going to kind of unpack it a little bit and see, see what, see what we come up with, really, aren't we? So the first year after splitting up with my ex, it was so weird. Such a weird experience. I had the kids on Christmas Eve and then I took them to their Dads at like, I don't know, 11 ish. Spent an hour there with him and his family in our family home and then just left. And because Christmas Day itself, I think I'd made notes the year before to myself kind of saying like, this is how to survive Christmas, because normally it would be like the big house. We'd have everybody there, massive table loads of food like, and just getting through that process was overwhelming. So I made notes on that and this year I was like, I'm free. But also really sad because I'm not with my kids. It was like such a weird feeling. But what Danielle was saying a few weeks ago, which is what I did. Danielle Divorce Coach episode. 17, something like that. We'll link to it. She was saying you need to have a plan for the day. Like, don't just let it happen. So yeah, I had friends come over and we had lovely food and it was it was a really nice day. It was a bit weird when they went home and being like sat on my own. But overall, nice day. And then this last year we did the same thing. I had them Christmas Eve drop them off with Mike and I went to my parents all really lovely. But this year we're switching it up. My ex is having them on Christmas Eve so I won't wake up with him on Christmas Day.
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Katie: And how do you feel about that? I'm interested. Tell me.
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Hannah: I feel kind of okay about it. Because, I mean, it's sad that I won't be there to see it, but I also won't be woken up at 5 a.m.. And I think as long as they're happy and they're having a good time, I'm trying not to feel like my whole identity revolves around making sure I'm there to ensure they have a good time.
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Katie: And, you know, as a child of divorce
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Hannah: Divorcemas
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Katie: As a child of divorcemas. I find that very refreshing to hear because I think you get yourself into this state of mind where you have to be at one parent or the other's every year, and if you miss a certain parents year, then it's favouritism, you know? And I felt that since I was a kid and they first split up and you end up having to be in so many different places at so many different times all the same time, actually so. So many different places all at the same time that you don't actually enjoy any of it. And it's all just about, rushing about trying to make sure that you see everybody and please everybody and you don't actually get a chance to enjoy it yourself, to do what Christmas is about, which is spending time with family instead of just going, Hello, I'm off now, which is what I feel like I've spent a lot of years doing through obligation to see both parents on Christmas Day.
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Katie: Interesting. And do you still feel it now?
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Hannah: Yeah, I do. Like it was worse... My ex-boyfriend had family that were divorced as well, and so he had his dad's family and his mum's family and they live all over the UK as well. So there was one year that between Christmas Eve and Boxing Day we went to like four different houses and like by the time I got back to work after Christmas break, I was like, I need a holiday. Like, it was so stressful and like a lot of different stuff to everybody's presents to remember like being nice, drinking loads of booze and eating loads of food you don't really want and it's just all a bit much, you know? And like, I think I still feel that obligation to go to whichever parents house it's 'the turn' of, you know, but maybe listening to what Hannah's saying here, and I think maybe I might be projecting on them a little bit, you know, and actually they're just going to be happy as long as I am as well.
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Hannah: What is your plan this year?
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Katie: So it's my ,I can't even, I can never remember which parent it is. I never think about it because I find it stressful. So I'm like, let's just wait till we get to like December the 23rd and we'll see. But I think it's my mum's turn this year, so I'll be going there with my stepdad, my brother and his wife, and my step dad's family won't be there because this is the thing when you've got your step parents, they've also got all of their own family as well. And like sometimes there's people at Christmas Dinner, you've never met before. You know, you just like whoever turns up, you know.
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Hannah: That's what it's like being a vicar's daughter. By the way.
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Katie: I bet!
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Hannah: There would be some random you've never met. Yeah, like maybe a handful of them. Even at Christmas dinner, which I kind of like.
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Katie: Yeah, I thought that was quite nice.
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Hannah: It would be like, Oh, so-and-so hasn't got anywhere to go, so they'll come over. But yeah.
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Katie: It's a funny one
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Hannah: That's an aside.
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Katie: But I don't know whether I'll do that anymore. Go to my mum's because I'm thinking maybe for the first time I'll actually do what I want.
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Hannah: Is that because we've just had the pre conversation?
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Katie: I mean, I'd like to say that I decided that in the duration of this podcast, but I had been thinking about it before.
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Hannah: Ah had you. Because I do. One of the things I'm thinking about is how much is it what you were saying there, the projection thing.
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Katie: Well, exactly. So I think if I said to my mum and dad, I want to just stay at home this year, like I don't want to do Christmas, and they'd both probably be fine with it. It's just like my own guilt that I can't miss one because it's favouritism, you know?
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Hannah: So maybe if you do neither, then no one's left out.
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Katie: Well, they are, because that would be my mum, you see. So if I miss my mum's year and then go to my dad's next year, then my mum's missed a year.
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Hannah: Oh I mean forever more.
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Katie: Forevermore, if I never go, if I never see my parents ever again.
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Hannah: At Christmas.
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Katie: Yeah. Okay.
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Hannah: Now what about doing something like doing your mum on Christmas Eve and your dad and Boxing Day and then just chilling on Christmas Day.
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Katie: Oh, that would be delightful, wouldn't it?
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Hannah: Do that Katie!
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Katie: Yeah. So, yeah, know my advice to parents for divorcemas is to just let your kids do whatever they want.
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Hannah: Sort of like Home Alone style. Pick a house. Here's some presents. Try not to burn the house down. See you on Boxing Day.
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Katie: I hear there's a pretty good party at Hannah's house. On Christmas Day. Loads of people from the vicarage round. Who knows?
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Hannah: If you don't know where to go, come to mine. So if you were asked as a kid. What do you want to do for Christmas? What do you think you would have said?
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Katie: I think when I was a kid, like I had a lot more attachment to my mom than I did my dad. And I don't know why that is. My dad's lovely, so I probably would have. And I guess it's probably because I lived in her house as well. So you want to stay in your own house on Christmas Day? Really? But I had to go between all the different houses still then as well, and I don't think our opinions were ever really considered. It was kind of like that's what's going to happen this Christmas.
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Hannah: Were here at this point and then you're going to be there.
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Katie: Yeah, exactly. And I think if I was given the choice, I probably would have just stayed at my mom's. But now that I'm an adult, like, actually the only option I want is to just not do any of the family things and do my own thing. You know?
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Hannah: I don't want to do either. because when you think about it, so obviously my parents are still together. And my experience at Christmas was you got your stocking, you went downstairs and opened your presents, you took your favorite present to church, played with that, came home, had dinner, played with whatever it was. Fashion Wheel is sticking out in my mind for some reason. I remember just spending the whole of Christmas one day night designing things with my fashion wheel and it was awesome.
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Katie: That sounds fun.
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Hannah: But really, you're just in your own little bubble.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: I wasn't speaking to either of my parents. I was just in that bubble. So.
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Katie: So I don't think I had that. I don't think I had that on Christmas. It was like you had to wait till you did all of your different family things before you could go home and play with your toys. You know?
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Hannah: Do you not think if you hadn't been to your dads, you would have been like, Oh, I wish I had can go to my dad so I can get my presents.
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Katie: Maybe. But like it was always my mom that got us the stuff that we wanted anyway, because of, you know
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Hannah: Oh, because you woke up there. I know you didn't always wake up there did you.
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Hannah: But the maternal role is to get the presents on the kid's Christmas list, isn't it? My dad would sort of just decide what he wanted to get us and that was fine as well. And we enjoyed getting the presents just as much off him. But I would say my mum was probably the primary parent. You know, you actually you asked for the Furby and things like that, and she was the one that stood outside of Argos at midnight to get me the Furby, not my Dad.
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Hannah: Oh maaam. My kids will never get that.
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Katie: I don't think you have to stand outside of Argos at midnight anymore though.
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Hannah: You probably don't.
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Katie: It was the thing. It was the thing.
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Hannah: It was.
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Katie: And I got a Furby and it never shut up.
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Hannah: No.
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Katie: You put them in a cupboard. And I'm talking about Furbys now.
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Hannah: But they were a massive thing I remember.
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Katie: And they would still make noise. Yeah, very irritating.
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Hannah: Indeed.
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Katie: So what do you think I should do then for my kids? Because I'm really conscious that I don't want them feeling like they're being pulled from pillar to post. I don't want them to feel obligations. But equally, if what they said to me, I don't want to see you on Christmas Day, I'd be like, Pull out my heart now.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: Equally I hope I would also be like, But I want you to have a really good day and have really good memories.
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Katie: Yeah, I think, like my parents probably did it the way that they did because they wanted me to have structure and I thought that's what was most important, that I didn't have to make any of the decisions. But actually I don't think it would have hurt to ask me what I wanted to do, you know? So I think that's important. Just ask the kids what you want to do. You don't necessarily have to do what they say, but like find out what they think of it you know.
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Hannah: I might do that next year because this is all planned. So the plan is they stay with their dad from the 21st until the 25th. So not being pulled around. Just at their dads. Then they'll be with me from the 25th At lunchtime, we'll go to my parents, which is on the way down south and then onto our cousins on the 26th. Their cousins, not my cousins, and do nice things there. And then I'll have them till New Year's Eve. No New Year's Day even.
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Katie: And so that's not too much pulling around, is it? But you know when...
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Hannah: They might feel it.
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Katie: No, I think it'll be okay. But just at the point where like, you know, Reuben's got his girlfriend and they're trying to go to, like, you know, Manchester and Leicester and Nottingham and like Surrey and Newcastle all in the same day at that point. So, you know, you don't have to see me if you don't want, son.
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Hannah: Do you know what, I might come and see you the week before.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: And we can do our Christmas stuff then. I think there's a lesson in that for all of us, though, because even, like the whole, you have to be with this parent one year and that parent another year would probably change if you got married and had your own kids because then you're like, Oh, this is.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: This is what we're going to do this time. I think you should just give yourself permission now without being married to say, Actually, I want to do what I want. I want to do. I want to one I want to do.
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Katie: I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want.
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Hannah: Tell me
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Katie: For Divorcemas will you get me some alone time, please.
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Hannah: Yes. I've stopped being able to speak, so it's probably a good time to stop. So our top tips are actually kids, what they want to do. Try not to do all the things.
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Katie: Try not to pull them around all over the place.
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Hannah: Yes, but as grown ups prioritize what you want to do.
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Katie: Absolutely. It's as much my fault as it is theirs, not the divorce. That's on them.
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Hannah: That's all on them.
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Hannah: And I really think we need to stop the obligations. Like just chill out. It's one day. One day.
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Katie: It really doesn't matter that much.
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Hannah: Do what you want to do? Create that space to play with your fashion wheel.
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Hannah: Yeah, I want to play with my fashion wheel and my Furby.
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Katie: Do you know what I'm getting myself? A Christmas from my like, from my parents and my grandparents and my brother, who doesn't know about it yet, but I want them all to give me money because I'm getting the master class subscription pack. It's the one where there's like, What's the women who does Spanx? So the inventor of Spanx, there's like Gordon Ramsay, not that necessarily want to listen to him, but like really great writers, like loads of different people who are all at the top of their game. That's what I'm getting for Christmas, doing their classes. So they've done like online classes. So I want to just have time to sit and listen to that.
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Katie: Yeah, that sounds perfect. Good idea.
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Hannah: Great, thanks, Katie.
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Katie: Yeah thanks, Hannah.
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Hannah: Happy divorcemas!!
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Katie: Happy divorcemas
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Katie: All right. Thank you so much for listening. And have a great week, and I'll see you next time for another episode of Happily Ever After With me, Hannah Harvey. I would be very grateful if you wouldn't mind leaving a review or subscribing because this helps more people find this podcast. And of course, if you've got a friend who you think might enjoy this episode, please do recommend it to them as well. For anything else, your thoughts on the episode or any questions? Please do get in touch with me through Instagram at Mums days or you can email me Hannah at Mums days dot com and I genuinely love hearing from you, so please do get in touch, byee.
