00:00:00 - 00:01:00
Hannah: Welcome to Happily Ever After the podcast, which seems to talk about all sorts of different things. But one listener described it as the place where we talk about what everyone else is thinking, but maybe not saying out loud. I am your host, Hannah Harvey. I'm a writer and a parenting blogger at Mums Days dot com. That's M.U.M.S D.A.Y.S dot com. If you wouldn't mind subscribing and leaving a review, that would be amazing because it basically means more people can find the podcast. And I also would really, really, really love to hear from you. So please could you contact me through Instagram @MumsDays? You can message me anything, really, but you know your stories of life and heartbreak or any thoughts you might have on the episode or any questions you want answering. And as always, you can find the details from this episode in the show notes.
00:01:02 - 00:01:14
Hannah: Hello and welcome to Happily Ever After with me, Hannah. And this week, I'm joined by a very old blogging friend, Katy, from the blog What Katy Said. Hi, Katy .
00:01:15 - 00:01:16
Katy: Hi, Hannah.
00:01:16 - 00:01:19
Hannah: Hello. Long time no speak.
00:01:19 - 00:01:24
Katy: A long time. Long, long time. We can't even remember how long it's been. It's been that long.
00:01:25 - 00:01:37
Hannah: I remember when I had Nancy. I was like, I think I'd given up blogging for a couple of years because we've always kept in touch on Instagram. When I'm on it.
00:01:37 - 00:01:39
Katy: Facebook or Facebook.
00:01:39 - 00:02:11
Hannah: Yeah. But I remember calling you. When I had Nancy, I don't know if you remember this and being like. How do I get back into blogging? We had like an hour conversation about it, but I feel like, you know, she's four now. I feel like everything's changed again since you had that conversation. So I'm really looking forward to exploring some of that kind of stuff with you because obviously I stopped, but you carried on and went from strength to strength.
00:02:11 - 00:02:21
Katy: You say that. You say that, but it's not. I don't think so. I don't feel like I have I feel like I've stayed the same. And not grown at all.
00:02:21 - 00:02:30
Hannah: But I think when I stopped, we were at a similar level. And then you definitely took off.
00:02:30 - 00:03:33
Katy: So you say that again. You say that. But I always viewed you at the point before you stopped. I always thought you were like aeons ahead of me winning awards. And your Facebook page was just, you know, amazing. I was like, Oh, how can I be as awesome as Hannah? And then you stopped. But I don't feel certainly with blogging, I don't feel like that ever grew. Facebook just no Instagram. Yes. And that is how. So when you stopped, everything changed around that time and suddenly Instagram was the thing. Yeah. Yeah. But again, yeah, it's changed again since then. I'd miss the old days. I'm not going to lie. I miss the old days when it was just blogging. Share it to Facebook. Share it on Twitter. Twitter wasn't such an angry place back then. Instagram just really wasn't a thing. Yeah, I miss that. I wish it would go back to that.
00:03:35 - 00:03:37
Hannah: So are you still blogging?
00:03:37 - 00:04:14
Katy: Yeah. But again, different style of blogging. So when I first ever started, it was well, when I first started, I knew nothing about mummy bloggers. y'know, I just started because I wanted to help other mothers. So I. You'd be like, I'd write and no one would be listening. At this point. I had no audience, no nothing. So I just started my blog. If you have painful boobs when you're breastfeeding, this is what you should do. I just tried to offload everything that I knew about motherhood into helpful blog posts.
00:04:14 - 00:04:14
00:04:14 - 00:05:25
Katy: Then. Then I discovered, Oh my God, there's so many other people doing blogging. It's not just angsty teenagers in America doing it, you know? And I realised that people. At that point, we're using their blogs as a diary. So they would be like, This is what I did this week. This is the day trip I went on. And that hasn't entirely stopped, but it was more about that. It was more about the lifestyle. And you would follow a blogger to see an insight into their world, into their life, and you'd be like, Oh, I can't wait until so-and-so publishes this post, because then I'll be able to catch up with them and see what they've done this week and this. Oh, and they've been on holiday. I can't wait till they upload all the photos and I can see their blog post. And it was very much all about that. And I loved that because it was just new and exciting and people were interested and I never understood why 'cause I'm so boring. I'm just so ordinary. But people, I mean, God, we're of the generation that sat and watched Big Brother on the red button when they were asleep. So I know how to... I guess I understand.
00:05:25 - 00:05:29
Hannah: We know how to sit paintently and even though it's s**t
00:05:29 - 00:06:11
Katy: And that's how it was for ages. It felt like. And then Instagram happened and because of Instagram, it's all Instagram's fault. This is what I'm realising. Instagram came and instead of having to wait all week to find out about your favourite blogger and what they had to say on everything, well they were uploading daily on Instagram miniature blog posts so you would see what they were doing that day. Or they might pre take a photo, but it would be within a few days of doing the thing. You wouldn't have to wait. So it's like the death to the blog because Instagram became mini blog posts.
00:06:11 - 00:06:11
00:06:12 - 00:06:40
Katy: And at that point a lot of people abandoned their blogs and invested a lot of time into Instagram. And that's where my blog suddenly, like, I just didn't do much on it. And I did. I invested a lot of time like commenting and taking photos and doing that. It wasn't video on Instagram at that point, so it was just taking beautifully shot photos.
00:06:41 - 00:06:46
Hannah: You were doing video, though, because I remember seeing some of your like power hour stuff and.
00:06:46 - 00:08:14
Katy: That came even after that. So that was like that then was then YouTube became the thing, you know, it was like one thing after another. So yeah, Instagram, Instagram sort of was like the death to the blog or what people thought was death of the blog. Then Instagram stories came along and you didn't even have to wait a whole day. You could just watch constantly what these people were doing. So it really the whole thing changed and it was like the micro influencer sprung up. So it wasn't bloggers anymore. It was, brands will pay you because you've got an audience on Instagram. And so it was chasing the numbers like, Oh, I've got to get more likes and I've got to get more followers. And it all just became really stressful and horrible. And it wasn't that I'm going to write a blog post and share what I've done this week. It was nothing pleasant about it anymore. It was all about the analytics and the and yeah, I really just fell out of love with all of it at that point. But we're stuck in this cycle of But now I'm earning money and I need to keep earning the money because this is what I've chosen to do. And yeah, and then YouTube was like, Oh, but there's also YouTube. So I'm doing Instagram and I'm doing YouTube and I can do my by decluttering because I discovered in my own my personal life that I needed to declutter my home, to declutter my brain because I had three kids and went insane. And so, yeah, I was trying to balance that as well.
00:08:14 - 00:08:15
00:08:15 - 00:09:43
Katy: And it's all just been a bit stressful and the last couple of years I just, I think with Lockdown, I just got tired of all of it and I just really have shrunk away like YouTube. I don't think I've posted. I think I might have posted one video in the last two years and Instagram. I'm very sporadic, but I have found a love of. Well, I don't even know if I found a love of blogging anymore, but I've rediscovered that blogging is a the best way to make money now than trying to. You know, you can invest so much time in YouTube or Tik Tok. I mean, and there's Tik Tok now or Instagram, but you're doing it for free. Oh, and I started a podcast as well, which again, I haven't done that in two years. So yeah, all these things, but you're doing them for free in the hope that it will gain traction so that then brands will pay you to it's like, but you're doing it for free in the hope that that will happen. Whereas with your blog. I have discovered the world of. SEO. So that's what's it Search engine optimisation. So basically writing blog posts that answer questions that people will Google.
00:09:44 - 00:09:44
00:09:45 - 00:10:21
Katy: And I have so much information in my head from like 11 years of being a parent and just various things that I have gone through as a woman in my whole life. So if there is something that somebody out there is Googling that I can answer, then they come to my blog, they read the blog post and there's ads on there, and I get paid for them looking and reading that. So that's sort of the direction I'm moving towards, trying to help people that will be Googling things.
00:10:21 - 00:10:22
00:10:22 - 00:10:50
Katy: So, yeah, that's it in a nutshell. It's like I've gone full set. I started out with my blog just wanting to write helpful posts to help people that were needing an answer to a question. I got sidetracked by social media and be an influencer, and that's really stressful. And I've gone back to, you know what? I have information that I can write down and help people as and when they Google things.
00:10:51 - 00:10:51
00:10:52 - 00:11:05
Katy: But it's really hard to let go of Instagram and YouTube and and it's like, I can't quite stop it. So I just dribs and drabs carry on with that just in case.
00:11:05 - 00:11:09
Hannah: And does that keep things ticking over?
00:11:11 - 00:12:00
Katy: Instagram owns me. No money, nothing, zip. But I have such a community on there that I wouldn't want to just. Never go back to it again. I'd feel the guilt of. But they followed me because they, you know, so I wouldn't ever want to stop that YouTube because I've posted anything that owns me nothing now, because if you don't post a video in a certain number of months or something, they stop all your advertising income. So that would be easy to build up again. But it kept finding the time. But yeah, blogging earns me a good wage through ad revenue. It's just working out the questions that people might Google to then write the post that will answer that question. So...
00:12:00 - 00:12:13
Hannah: It feels like it would be so much more rewarding as well being because I find when I've actually sat and written something for a little while, it's like, Oh, that's it's out of my head. I feel like I achieve something.
00:12:13 - 00:13:40
Katy: Yeah, I mean, one of my best performing blog, Series's, if you like, is all about the milk ladder. Both Lily and William had milk allergies as babies and toddlers, and so I put all of that. Everything that I learn, everything that I went through, I wrote down and I have so many people daily come, you know, they've obviously searched it on Google. How to move up the milk ladder or does my child have a milk allergy or my child is screaming, What can I do to any of that? I have that information on my blog. And so people search for that. My blog post comes up, they come on over and I genuinely help those people because then sometimes if they haven't had the answers that they need or sometimes they just need emotional support, they'll write a comment or they'll come over to Instagram and they'll message me like, I've just read your blog post. Thank you so much for writing it. I'm in like the dark days of milk allergy right now. So thank you so much for sharing everything. And yeah, it's, it is so rewarding. Whereas, you know, I could write a post on Instagram about the same thing. No one would see it because Instagram would just kill it. And I would not have helped a single soul. And and then it would disappear into the aether forever. Like, no one's going to scroll back 100 Instagram posts to find that. So..
00:13:40 - 00:13:43
Hannah: It's just not searchable.
00:13:43 - 00:14:26
Katy: No. So, so answering things via your blog, using Google as the like, this is what I'm aiming for. I'm aiming to to rank on Google so that people can find this is much more rewarding and you get like rewarding mentally knowing you've actually helped people, but rewarding in money. Because if you can get enough page views, then you can join an ad network and then you get monetary rewards as well as the feel good. You know, you've you've helped people. I mean, one of my so in December we do elf on the shelf in this household something that if anyone's listening and is thinking I might start don't start.
00:14:26 - 00:14:27
Hannah: It I never do.
00:14:27 - 00:15:13
Katy: That to yourself Don't don't don't do it. It's hell. I show you. I have a blog post that is last minute Elf on the Shelf ideas because goddammit, you forget every evening and then if you remember, you're like, Gosh, quick, I need a quick idea. 11,000 people in December came and looked at this one blog post. So that's 11,000 people that I helped because it's got so many photos. And it's not just, you know, it's not text, it's actually it's a photo post. So it's just this is what you need to recreate. This is what you need to recreate. Here's an idea here to de de de, de de. And there's like 100 different ideas in it. So 11,000 people helped right there. And then also, as they were looking through the photos, there's.
00:15:14 - 00:15:14
Hannah: Something else yeah.
00:15:14 - 00:15:16
Katy: And I get money for it too bonus!
00:15:17 - 00:15:20
Hannah: I did not know you were an elf on the shelf expert
00:15:20 - 00:15:26
Hannah: Oh, how many years have I been doing it? Probably five years. Nightmare. Don't ever start.
00:15:26 - 00:15:32
Hannah: And you try and tell me you're boring. I'm sorry. Not now. You've gone fully up in my estimations.
00:15:34 - 00:15:42
Katy: And I don't even have one elf. We have five. We have five elves. I know my children hate me. They've made me into a lunatic.
00:15:43 - 00:15:47
Hannah: You love it. I hope it helps de-clutter afterwards.
00:15:47 - 00:15:51
Katy: No. Well, no. He makes mess or they make mess, five of them.
00:15:51 - 00:16:05
Hannah: Friends. Oh. So talk us back to when you were a kid. So you're, like, ten years old. What do you. What was the dream then? What was little Katy into?
00:16:06 - 00:16:26
Katy: All I ever, ever wanted was for somebody to love me and to be a mum. That was it. There was no big like, I want to be a doctor or I want to. It was just I just want to be a mom. I want to have babies with somebody that loves me. That was it. That was my dream. Tick.
00:16:28 - 00:16:29
Hannah: Oh, that's so...
00:16:29 - 00:17:32
Katy: I'm a simpleton. I'm simple. I just wanted someone to love me. I wasn't a popular child, so I wasn't one that had boyfriends in. When I was five or through junior school or even secondary school. I was not a popular child. And so I don't know if that made it. Like if I'd have had a boyfriend, you know, like my middle daughter, Lilly, she has a boyfriend. She's eight. Nine. She's nine. My William, he's six. He has a girlfriend, You know, he's in love, going to marry her. So but I never had any of that, so I don't know if that's why that was such a big deal to me, you know? So if I'd have had little boyfriend or something as a little one, maybe I would have been like, Oh, it's not so interesting. Maybe I'll be a doctor instead. I don't know. But because I never had anyone show me any interest, it obviously became a thing. And yeah, I just wanted somebody to love me and to have the babies.
00:17:32 - 00:17:33
Hannah: You just wanted to fall in love and have the babies.
00:17:34 - 00:17:45
Katy: And I did marry my first boyfriend, so I reeled him in and I married him. That was it. My.
00:17:45 - 00:17:53
Hannah: Law of Attraction, full blown. All I want is a boyfriend. And did you go to uni?
00:17:54 - 00:18:26
Katy: I did. That's where we met. Yeah, we met on the first day of uni. We were in a halls. He was round the corner from me and that was the September. By the Christmas I was in love. I remember going home that Christmas holiday and just listening to Daniel Bedingfield. If you're not the one that was the song and I just played it over and over and over and over and over and over and over. And I knew I loved him. The End. And we became a couple probably the next September, I would say it was.
00:18:27 - 00:18:28
Hannah: Oh, my God. He kept you waiting?
00:18:28 - 00:18:29
00:18:29 - 00:18:30
Hannah: You weren't together.
00:18:30 - 00:18:34
Katy: No, no. He had a girlfriend. Selfish.
00:18:35 - 00:18:37
Hannah: Oh, my heart's just broken a bit there.
00:18:37 - 00:18:47
Katy: Yeah. I broke my heart for a whole year. A whole year of pining. But I knew he was the one. I just knew that I. That he was meant for me.
00:18:48 - 00:18:51
Hannah: You just kept playing the song and then made it happen?
00:18:51 - 00:18:59
Katy: Yeah. Oh, yes. And then we've been together ever since. So that's 20. 20 years.
00:19:00 - 00:19:04
Hannah: 20 years. Three kids, five elves on the shelves.
00:19:05 - 00:19:06
Katy: And a dog.
00:19:06 - 00:19:10
Hannah: And a dog. Yeah. So you're living it then? The Fairytale
00:19:10 - 00:19:20
Katy: Yeah. I completed. My goal in life is to find someone that loved me, put up with my crazy ways, and had all the babies.
00:19:20 - 00:19:25
Hannah: All the babies? What's it like at the top? You've reached the pinnacle.
00:19:25 - 00:19:34
Katy: You know, it's funny. Never satisfied. It's like, No, but now I want a bigger house, and now I want more money. And I want to be able to go on holiday and. Yeah.
00:19:35 - 00:19:43
Hannah: And you clearly ambitious, because I think people that go into something like blogging are a very certain type of person.
00:19:43 - 00:19:44
Katy: You think?
00:19:45 - 00:19:50
Hannah: Who are like, delusional and really like, hard work for free preferably.
00:19:52 - 00:19:59
Katy: Yeah. See, the problem with me is, is I want to achieve those things.
00:20:01 - 00:20:03
Hannah: Yeah. So quite competitive in nature.
00:20:03 - 00:20:12
Katy: But I am a perfectionist, which stops me doing any of the things because I worry that I won't be good enough.
00:20:12 - 00:20:12
00:20:12 - 00:20:33
Katy: I'd rather not start. Instead of trying and failing. So I have these grand plans. I've had so many grand plans over the years to do different things. And then I get panicky that nobody will buy the thing or nobody will fail. And then I shrivel into a corner and give up.
00:20:34 - 00:20:50
Hannah: That's me 100%. That's why I stopped blogging, because I was like, I don't see how I can. Um. Do all these things that I want to do. It feels too hard and not be the best. Because you can't, obviously. So why bother?
00:20:50 - 00:20:53
Katy: Yeah, that's it.
00:20:53 - 00:21:00
Hannah: Have you got any tricks that you use to get yourself out of this? Because I wonder if you're in it a little bit at the moment.
00:21:01 - 00:21:40
Katy: Uh, no. It's finding the path of least resistance. It's working out what you actually want. So? So, for example, one of my grand plans, even it was only a couple of years ago, three years ago, maybe was to create and sell a decluttering course. Which one day maybe I will do. I. I made most of it. It's. It's pretty much ready to go. But then the fear of. But what if people won't buy it? And then I've wasted my time. It's like, well, I've wasted my I've made it anyway.
00:21:40 - 00:21:41
Hannah: Yeah, you've already made it.
00:21:41 - 00:23:55
Katy: I've already made it. But so. So it's like, really? Go. But why do you want to do that? Well, because at the end of the day, it's a job. I need money, I want to help people. I also need money. So I. It's about finding. The path of least resistance to be able to. Reach those goals. So I want to be able to help people. I want to earn money. But the stress and anxiety that creating and selling a course gave me wasn't going to be the one. It was always going to just stress me out and make me feel panicked. So that is not the way that. To help people and make money. Just not that one. Maybe one day it might be, but not now. And so, as I say, writing blog posts for people to find through Google. So building up the page views, I'm helping people. I'm helping people. Oh, I've got enough page views to join an ad agency. Now I can earn money and there's no anxiety around that because. I like writing. I like looking for things thing. Right. You know what? Not many people have solved this question. I'm going to I'm going to write about that and I'm going to do that. I'm not trying to impress anyone with fancy photos or how many likes it's got or how many followers. It's like just writing down in a blog post information and sending it out for Google to rank. And then there's no anxiety around that. I just do what I'm good at and send it out into the world. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. And and that's the thing. So the trick is to find a way to satisfy whatever it is your your basic needs are in this business and mine is I want to work from home. I want to help people. I want to earn money. Perfect. Yeah. So. Yeah. Path of least resistance all the way.
00:23:55 - 00:23:57
Hannah: Yeah, I hear you.
00:23:59 - 00:24:06
Hannah: Do you think... because I have this thing where I'm like, Right. So I've written a book. Like a kid's book.
00:24:06 - 00:24:07
Katy: Yes, I saw.
00:24:07 - 00:24:12
Hannah: And it'll never be finished. Because I don't know how to finish it.
00:24:13 - 00:24:17
Katy: As in the story or how to actually.
00:24:18 - 00:24:26
Hannah: How to make it work. So I've written it probably three times, but you know, and you're like. It's not good enough.
00:24:26 - 00:24:29
Katy: But you had what? Didn't you have one published, though?
00:24:29 - 00:24:30
00:24:30 - 00:24:37
Katy: Oh, so you've. Oh, but you've shared things before about. You've written one. I always assumed you'd actually gone all the way. Right. I'm with you. Okay.
00:24:37 - 00:24:41
Hannah: Yeah. So that is literally in a drawer that I can see right now.
00:24:41 - 00:24:41
00:24:42 - 00:24:45
Hannah: On, like, piles of paper. And it's, like...
00:24:46 - 00:24:55
Katy: So break it down. What? What is actually so. Have you finished the story? Like beginning, middle, end? It's done.
00:24:55 - 00:25:05
Hannah: It's done. But I know that there needs probably to be... it needs to get to the action quicker and it needs more stuff in the middle.
00:25:05 - 00:25:06
Katy: What is it?
00:25:09 - 00:25:20
Hannah: It's a chapter book. But it's one of these things. So I've just put it in a drawer and gone, You know what? That's not where I'm at right now, but it's always.
00:25:20 - 00:25:23
Katy: Have you given it to a child to read?
00:25:23 - 00:25:23
00:25:23 - 00:25:25
Katy: Like edit it, like not edit it but...
00:25:26 - 00:25:50
Hannah: Not to edit but a women read it to her two kids and then sent me back some. Their like little feedback on it which was lovely which I still I printed out and I keep nearby. It's like those things and I'm thinking of your decluttering thing as well, where you're like, Oh, it's nearly done, but just not quite. And how can you just get the damn thing out the door?
00:25:50 - 00:26:11
Katy: So my advice, take it or leave it is if it's finished and maybe it's not perfect? You don't need to send it to a publisher or so that they might be like, No, this isn't good enough. Sorry. Self publish it. And then write the next one.
00:26:12 - 00:26:13
00:26:13 - 00:28:15
Katy: And you could always go back and you get first editions, second editions of books, whatever. But you know what? You've written it. As long as it makes sense. Yeah, you could get to the action quicker. But you know what? You've done it. Get it out there. And maybe you might only sell one copy to me, but it's done. And then you can move on to the next one and take what you've learnt from that one into your next one. Because the thing is, I mean, I even I've not written a whole book, but even writing blog posts sometimes. You know It's not quite right, but you have no idea how to make it right because it's. Do I get rid of that? But no, but that's relevant. So where do I. And then you start to rejig it and then it doesn't make sense. Like, no, it has to go back to where it was. You can't. because you've already written it. It's like it's already on the page and you've moved on to the next chapter or it's done. My advice would just be, you know what, self publish, get it out onto Amazon and then just start the next book. It could be a follow up book. I mean, even if I think of like Harry Potter, how many billions of pounds she has made from that series. Book one I really enjoyed. But two, terrible. Absolutely. The worst book, like not in the world, but it's a dreadful book. And if she hadn't have released the third book in quick succession, I probably would have been lost and not gone back to book two. Back to the series again because I was booked. It was dreadful, absolutely slow. There wasn't really a plot. It was just nothing. No, but luckily Book three was really good and then they got better, stronger and stronger because she learned and grew with the process. The characters expanded so you could just do that and go, Do you know what book one is? Fine. I'll never be satisfied with it. But also that's just a creative. No one's ever.
00:28:15 - 00:28:15
00:28:15 - 00:28:21
Katy: Yeah, exactly. You know, Done is better than perfect, as Abby always used to say.
00:28:21 - 00:28:30
Hannah: Yeah, but you know what? I think this about your decluttering course. I think who's going to know how many people bought it except you?
00:28:31 - 00:28:42
Katy: Well, except I was going to have a group, like a Facebook group. So then if only one person bought it and there's just one person in the group, it was like, Oh, hi, thanks. You're the only one who bought it.
00:28:42 - 00:28:44
Hannah: So?! Could be me?
00:28:44 - 00:28:47
Katy: Oh, no. The horror of it all.
00:28:47 - 00:29:03
Hannah: Oh, it's all very Denise Duffield Thomas, don't you think? Yeah. So, like, the first one only has one in, but then you learn from it and. And it's better if there's only one, because there's so much you're going to learn from the first time you do something that you want fewer people in it. So that...
00:29:04 - 00:29:06
Katy: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.
00:29:06 - 00:29:08
Hannah: But I get what you're saying.
00:29:08 - 00:29:21
Katy: Yeah. Also like I never sort of finished it because I was like, I need to earn money, so I need to focus on the things that are earning me money rather than focusing on this as even though probably if I just did it, I would earn a fortune.
00:29:21 - 00:29:22
Hannah: Well, that's it isn't it.
00:29:23 - 00:29:52
Katy: But no, I just I was like, I'll park that for now and carry on. But yeah, I would just publish the book, self publish. So then you don't have to deal with any rejection from any publishing houses or whatever, self publish done, move on to the next one and learn to pace yourself better or plan out the story arc. But whatever it is that you feel is wrong with with the one that you've done. But if it's done. Put it out there.
00:29:52 - 00:29:53
Hannah: Get it out the door!
00:29:53 - 00:29:58
Katy: Get it out. Show it the door. And you never know. You never know.
00:29:58 - 00:30:02
Hannah: You never know. The ridicule that I might face.
00:30:03 - 00:30:17
Katy: You wouldn't. You wouldn't. Even if somewhat like, people bought it. And then you got some bad reviews. So what? They paid for it. So you've got the money now?
00:30:17 - 00:30:19
Hannah: Yeah. Give me a bad review.
00:30:19 - 00:30:21
Katy: But I've got your £8.99.
00:30:24 - 00:30:33
Hannah: You know what I might do, I might make this podcast, me reading a chapter a night. I won't do that to everybody, I promise.
00:30:35 - 00:30:54
Hannah: Well, interesting. So in terms of online, because back in the day, obviously everybody was having a baby was like, I'm starting a blog and I'm going to make money. Is that still a thing? Do you still think it's possible to start from scratch and start a blog and make money?
00:30:54 - 00:32:10
Katy: Yes, 100%. But if you are going so if anyone's listening now, like I want to start a blog, I want to earn money like she does, she's got the ad revenue. Absolutely. But you have to. Focus on a niche, a topic. Mine grew. Just because I've had it for nine years, nine years, and things like my Milk Ladder series, whatever, meant that Google ranked me highly and yada yada yada. And it just sort of grew. But it's a very higgledy piggledy. I've got recipes on there. I've got fashion posts, I've got milk ladder things, I've got Elf on the Shelf, I've got decluttering. It's all a bit mish mash. And my blog is probably just plateaued. It will never grow much further because it has no real direction. So if anyone is thinking right, I want to start a blog. Go. Okay, but what are you interested in? What can you write about over and over and over and over and over again? So if you love cooking, fine. Do all the recipes. Don't be right about fashion trends.
00:32:10 - 00:32:13
Hannah: Like Taming with Twins. Yes, very niche. It's slow cookers. Yeah.
00:32:13 - 00:32:22
Katy: I mean, her her blog has always done well, but her Instagram, I think in one year has grown from I think she was on something like 50.
00:32:22 - 00:32:23
Hannah: I think she was on something like 150 thousand.
00:32:23 - 00:32:24
Katy: She's on 300 odd now.
00:32:24 - 00:32:25
00:32:25 - 00:32:40
Katy: Yeah, I looked yesterday because I made something of hers yesterday. In fact, it was delicious. But yeah, she went like last January or thereabouts. She was on about 30,000.
00:32:40 - 00:32:41
Hannah: No way.
00:32:41 - 00:34:45
Katy: And she was like, You know what? I'm going to really plough into reels and I'm going to share really niche. Just easy meals, easy meals, easy meals, easy meals. And it's just I mean, she's, you know, if she'd have done this two years ago, might not have taken off. But because of how Tik Tok has changed the way that people watch videos and things, she's really like, hit that curve. Yeah, yeah, 300 grand. 300,000 followers on Instagram, probably similar on TikTok, Tik Tok, if she's got it, which again, she never shares the recipe on Instagram. She shares the little video. And doesn't this look tasty? The link? Will take you through to my blog. So all of those people that are watching that, the ones not everyone will click through, but those that do will. That's page views. She gets ad revenue from her blog as well. So it's driving people over to where the money can be made. And she's also just you can pre-order her recipe book now. So obviously she's going to get sales from that. I mean, she's she's just done so well. But yes, a great example of choosing a niche. So maybe you are really into orchids, you know, like you just, you know, everything there is to know about orchids, right? Start an orchid blog, you know, God knows what you'd call it, like orchid care.com, I don't know. But just, you know, how to care for an orchid. What? What does it mean when the orchid roots shrivel up? What is the best soil for an orchid? Where should I position my orchid? Does do orchids like bright light? You know, all the questions that people type into Google, they are all blog posts. So there you go. There's a niche idea for somebody who loves orchids there. Maybe, like, maybe you like. I don't even know. I can't even think. Think of a topic like.
00:34:45 - 00:34:48
Hannah: Well sobriety, for example, That's huge.
00:34:48 - 00:35:30
Katy: Perfect. All the questions, you know, how can I kerb the cravings, how can you know? And also there's like the mental health side of that as well. So you can be like, you know what to do when you are feeling low and want to turn to drink, you know, And basically you just you just type into Google, you start. So if you're looking for the questions that you're going to answer, you just use Google. You type into the search bar. Um. A. You could just start off with, like, alcoholic tips. Yeah, And. But then it's self populates, doesn't it, when you when you put something into Google it like shows you what it thinks.
00:35:30 - 00:35:31
Hannah: What it thinks you might..
00:35:31 - 00:35:40
Katy: Yeah. So if you type in alcoholic and then the letter T it might do tips for beginners.
00:35:41 - 00:35:43
Hannah: I know exactly what you mean.
00:35:43 - 00:36:54
Katy: And so you go that's something the ones that they show you are ones that people have written before that they've put in before. So anything that self populates. People have asked that question to Google. They want that answer. And if you know the answer and you don't have to be the world expert on that thing, you just have to know more than the person who's Googling it, which they don't know the answer. Otherwise they wouldn't be Googling it, you know what I mean? So you just have to know more than the average person. And yet and then once you say you put in alcoholic tips, I mean, it's actually it sounds like it's tips for making you an alcoholic. So it's the worst phrase. But once you've done that, if you scroll right to the bottom of the search results, there's always suggested or similar search terms at the bottom. They are also questions that people have put in relating to that. So if you click on it, it will bring you and you can see what other people have written. Then once you've seen what other people have written, you can click on them and go, Well, that's rubbish. I can tell them something better than that. I'm going to rewrite that in a better way and then you outrank them.
00:36:54 - 00:36:55
00:36:56 - 00:37:45
Katy: And that's all there is. That's all you have to do. You just have to think. Right. What do I know, What do I want to write about. And yeah. So I, my blog is very mish mash. I could write about anything at this stage because my blog has got so many different topics. But yeah, if anyone starting out, you really need to zoom in on one thing and maybe a couple of peripheral related things, but I wouldn't don't, I would never recommend or start a lifestyle blog and do a bit of fashion, a bit of home interiors, a bit of no, no no, and then choose one of them. Yeah. So yeah, if you want to write about gardening, fine. But is it gardening in the UK or is it garden or.
00:37:45 - 00:37:52
Hannah: A small garden or.. I'll have to be even more niche than that don't you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To drill down. That's really helpful.
00:37:52 - 00:38:20
Katy: Yeah. Like running, running tips. But don't just do running tips. It be running for mum's, you know, really niche it down so that you are targeting one. Well, suppose one person. Who are you writing this for? One person who is that one person? So if you were going to do one around sobriety, you would write it to Sarah, who has just started. She's just decided today she wants to give up alcohol. That's who you're writing for? Yeah.
00:38:21 - 00:38:26
Hannah: Or it might even be Melanie, who's not sure yet.
00:38:26 - 00:38:38
Katy: Yeah. Yeah. Take it a step back. So, you know, she's in the depths of alcoholism, you know. So Melanie is just not sure she's Googling. Like, I feel like I just drink too much.
00:38:38 - 00:38:40
Hannah: How can I cut down.
00:38:40 - 00:38:53
Katy: And so you're writing to her, and then you guide her through the whole process. And then future Melanie's will go through the same process again and the same process, and they'll read, and they just swallow up all your blog posts. They love them because.
00:38:53 - 00:39:14
Hannah: It's bloody love them. Melanie and her friends. Do you know what else is interesting about this is I find the pressure of social media is that you're creating new content every single day, whereas with a blog you don't have to share that to anybody. That's just for Google.
00:39:14 - 00:39:27
Katy: And Google does the thing. And I mean the Elf on the Shelf thing. I wrote that four years ago. I didn't publicise it, I didn't share it anywhere this December, but 11,000 people found it somehow. Thank you Google. Yeah.
00:39:28 - 00:39:33
Hannah: But instead of being like, Oh God, I've got to be fresh and creative for Instagram and it's a performing monkey.
00:39:35 - 00:39:58
Katy: Yeah, and I think that's why I fell out of love with it, especially through lockdown where I was like, I literally have nothing to say. I am just. What it makes in four walls. I have nothing. Nothing to give any more. I'm done. I'm burnt out. I have got all these children with me all the time and I just had enough. And it is. It's because it's a constant need for approval.
00:39:58 - 00:39:59
00:39:59 - 00:40:40
Katy: And you know, and if it doesn't perform well then, oh I might lose followers or, or you know, people are going to be like, oh she said you got three likes on that post, I'm going to unfollow her because she's obviously rubbish or I don't know. And it's just that constant pressure is the peer pressure. And so and I just, I saw how it was making me feel and I just I don't want to be I don't want my children to see me constantly on social media because I don't want them. I don't want them on it. Like, no, I don't want them part of that world of going, Oh, I need more likes. I need to add filters on it. No, nope, nope, nope, nope. So yeah, I've taken a real step back, which again, it's really it's like a drug.
00:40:40 - 00:40:42
Hannah: Well, it's an addiction because.
00:40:42 - 00:42:34
Katy: Well, I mean, phones are an addiction, for sure, but it's also like I have those 19,000 followers or whatever. And then on on YouTube, I've got I think it's 7000 followers on there. Tik Tok. I've got about 6000 or something on there. And I could just go, you know, I'm never going to bother with them in any of them again. Because they stress me out and take up so much of my time for for little to no reward. And just focus on the blog, which probably is the most sensible thing to do, because if I invested more time, I could write more posts like the Elf on the Shelf Things and the Milk Ladder and just more page views, more money. I actually I own the domain for three, maybe four different blogs, but I only ever have time and I don't really ever have time for the what Katy said one. I also have a decluttering motherhood dot com. I also have a teaching children .co.uk because teacher and then also because you can't tell because my hair is all like it isn't it's just up. But I discovered that I actually have naturally curly hair. So I started a blog which has one blog post on it are called Is My Hair Curly dot com And again, it's for that person who isn't sure. So they starting the journey of how can you tell what products do you use, How do you make what what is the curly girl method is all of that but have I got time to do that? No, I haven't because I'm wasting time creating reels and going on stories telling like three people that I've had some breakfast. It's so hard. It's so hard to give those channels up because I. Like I was all.
00:42:34 - 00:42:36
Hannah: They feel irrelevant a little bit if you're not there.
00:42:37 - 00:43:04
Katy: Yeah. And I just. I've always been late to the party, like I was late to Instagram stories. I was late to reels, I was late to Instagram, I was late to YouTube, and I don't want it. And I always felt like, Oh, if I'd have just started sooner. Maybe I would have been one of the front runners or whatever it was if what's it called? It's not front runner. Is it a front runner?
00:43:04 - 00:43:07
Hannah: I don't know. I'm so behind. I don't even know.
00:43:09 - 00:43:34
Katy: Anyway, so now I'm like, if I quit Instagram or if I quit YouTube and just don't bother with them at all. What if, in a couple of years time. I regret that. And I should have persevered because now this has happened and I would have been awesome at that. But it's too late because I didn't do anything and I've lost all my followers, so I can't. But it's like, I know deep down I should just focus on my blog because it actually makes me money.
00:43:35 - 00:43:42
Hannah: That. you've literally. Explained it all. Let's face it. Have you seen Leonie Dawson?
00:43:42 - 00:43:42
00:43:43 - 00:44:11
Hannah: She's an Aussie entrepreneur lady online who's like proper hippy crazy lady. And she's the reason that I found Denise Duffield Thomas, who's another like, online guru type. And she has just quit all social media and she's got an incredible course about how to market yourself without social media. And she explains how toxic it is and how important it is to have your own channels, like have your newsletter.
00:44:11 - 00:44:14
Katy: Oh, for sure. Because if Instagram disappeared tomorrow.
00:44:14 - 00:44:18
Hannah: Look at Facebook. It's off. Google Plus. Do you remember when we all did Google F**ing plus?!
00:44:18 - 00:44:34
Katy: Oh, I know. Yeah, I know it's true. I mean, like Snapchat. I mean, I was never really on Snapchat, but people like, saved their handle just in case. It's like there was another one. Ello. Ello was like, Make sure you save your thing on that.
00:44:34 - 00:44:38
Katy: Ello Ello, Ello. It's just relentless.
00:44:38 - 00:44:42
Katy: And so, yeah, if YouTube disappeared tomorrow, whatever, like.
00:44:42 - 00:44:43
Hannah: It's not going to.
00:44:44 - 00:44:57
Katy: And the people. So, for example, Taming Twins. I mean, she has her blog, so she wouldn't. But let's say she was only on reels on Instagram and Instagram blew up and got. she'd have nobody.
00:44:57 - 00:44:58
00:44:58 - 00:45:14
Katy: Luckily she has her blog. She she most definitely would have a mailing list. So yeah, it's making sure you have your own things and you're not solely relying on those. But she's she's given up social media completely. Well I mean well done her.
00:45:14 - 00:45:16
Hannah: She makes millions.
00:45:16 - 00:45:21
Katy: Yeah. So Google Google is the way forward.
00:45:23 - 00:45:30
Hannah: Well, to finish off, are you in a New Year's goal setting type of person?
00:45:31 - 00:45:34
Katy: Uh haaa. So the irony the irony.
00:45:34 - 00:45:35
Hannah: What has the start of the year got in store?
00:45:36 - 00:46:06
Katy: ... is my New Year's resolution was to try and revive my YouTube and my podcast and do all of the things. But what we now have, the Friday the 13th today is being recorded. Yeah. We're only two weeks in to January. And I'm already thinking, Yeah, no, I don't think I want to do that. It's too much.
00:46:06 - 00:46:29
Hannah: Listen to your gut. Like everything you've said there is. So. Sensible. If you want to do this online thing and make money, do your blog. Yeah, I feel like all the Instagram and I am definitely. A person who's in danger of falling into the trap is ego. It's getting the light.
00:46:29 - 00:46:30
Katy: For sure.
00:46:30 - 00:46:40
Hannah: And feeling a bit famous and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, Oh. Am I doing it for the right reason.
00:46:41 - 00:47:09
Katy: Well, that's it. What is it for? Because, like, I've just before I've come on to chat with you. I was filming a reel because I committed to doing a five day like day one was the living room. Day two was the kitchen, like decluttering and tidying. So I was filming the bedroom. One of the series. What's it for though, people will watch it. The last one I did yesterday is one the bathroom, 3000 views. That's lovely.
00:47:09 - 00:47:10
00:47:10 - 00:47:17
Katy: But what has that got me though? It's got me 3000 views. Has that benefited me in any shape or form?
00:47:18 - 00:47:20
Hannah: Probably not.
00:47:20 - 00:47:40
Katy: The only thing I will say is I get people joining my mailing list because they click my in the bio. You can add a link and I've got a thing so that they can download a free decluttering checklist.
00:47:40 - 00:47:41
Hannah: Yeah, you've got an E book.
00:47:43 - 00:47:51
Katy: The checklist thing. So if they download that, they go onto my mailing list, which then. I own them.
00:47:51 - 00:47:53
Hannah: Yeah, you are now my people.
00:47:53 - 00:48:28
Katy: They are. I have. So then if I was cleverer, I could use that mailing list to promote my blog post and promote any products that I was going to do. So in that essence. It's handy because people do find me through Instagram or find my mailing list through Instagram. But. I don't do anything with my mailing list. So them joining it is pointless. I send out emails but that doesn't earn me money. So the only thing that earns me money is my blog.
00:48:29 - 00:48:35
Hannah: Yeah, ohhh. Interesting.
00:48:35 - 00:48:40
Katy: Well, ego. Ego is definitely. I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
00:48:40 - 00:49:21
Hannah: I mean, it is. It is. But like you say, there are benefits and it's a nice way to keep in touch with other people like you and I are talking about feeling boring and all that kind of stuff. Which we wouldn't be if we didn't have it. But it's how much. I guess it's being more disciplined about how much time you spend in it and you know. Deciding. Say you've got 10 hours to work in a week, making sure that you're prioritising the things that actually make you money and then the other things. Yeah, fit in. And not the other way round because I'm in danger of being like, It's all in for Instagram and then not spending time on doing the blogging.
00:49:21 - 00:49:24
Katy: And publishing your book.
00:49:24 - 00:49:27
Hannah: Publishing that bestseller to you
00:49:27 - 00:49:29
Katy: You never know. You never know.
00:49:31 - 00:49:37
Hannah: Who knows? Well, that's been absolutely fascinating. Thank you, Katy . You know, when you start talking and you don't know where this is going to go.
00:49:37 - 00:49:39
Katy: Told you I'd ramble!
00:49:39 - 00:49:49
Hannah: But that's been really, really helpful on a personal level. Like you've given me lots of food for thought. So very much appreciate that.
00:49:49 - 00:49:50
Katy: You're welcome.
00:49:51 - 00:49:55
Hannah: Well, you have a lovely 2023 and please can we meet up soon.
00:49:55 - 00:49:58
Katy: Yes, except you live about 300 miles away.
00:49:59 - 00:50:02
Hannah: Yeah, I was like, I don't even know where you said you lived.
00:50:05 - 00:50:08
Hannah: Oh, well, thanks so much.
00:50:09 - 00:50:49
Hannah: All right. Thank you so much for listening. And have a great week and I'll see you next time for another episode of Happily Ever After with me, Hannah Harvey. I would be very grateful if you wouldn't mind leaving a review or subscribing because this helps more people find this podcast. And of course, if you've got a friend who you think might enjoy this episode, please do recommend it to them as well. For anything else, your thoughts on the episode or any questions, please do get in touch with me through Instagram at @Mumsdays or you can email me Hannah @ Mums Days dot com and I genuinely love hearing from you, so please do get in touch byee.