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Hannah: Welcome to Happily Ever After the podcast, where we talk about life's big stories from great sex to sexual trauma, break-ups and breakdowns, icky secrets and happy endings. It's the stuff that makes us human. And boy, do we cover it all. I'm your host, Hannah Harvey. I'm a writer and a parenting blogger at Mums' Days dot com. That's M.U.M.S.D.A.Y.S dot com. I would be very grateful if you could subscribe and leave a review because it means more people can find the podcast. And I also really, really, really love hearing from you. So please contact me through Instagram @MumsDays with all your stories of life and any thoughts you might have on the episode or even questions you want answering. You can find all the details from this episode in the show notes.
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Hannah: Hello and welcome to Happily Ever After With Me. And today I'm joined by live illustrator Katie Chapple. Hi, Katie.
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Katie: Hello. How are you doing?
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Hannah: I'm good. Now, Katie is a woman with lots of strings to her bow. She's a live illustrator with a successful business in your own right. But then you also support other illustrators and creatives through your online programs, which is called The Good Ship. And you do that with two other ladies, is that right?
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Katie: Yes, that's right. I'm on the Good Ship Illustration with Helen Stephens and Tanya Willis, who were like..
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Hannah: Big shout out!!
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Katie: They're like my real life pals as well. So it is it is lovely to have that.
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Hannah: Oh, good. You all live near each other?
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Katie: Yeah, we all live in Berwick. So that's how it started actually, because we used to meet up and chat and we were like, These chats are golden, we need to share them. And then, you know, just because you share like not, not industry secrets, but you just talk about how your works going and stuff. And as illustrators you're always at home alone and stuff. So it's really nice to kind of have people to share that with.
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Hannah: Yeah, it's like the nuggets of the nuts and bolts, what you actually need and you've got like a podcast together. I was looking at that and you've got like a whole bunch of other things and you've recently had a baby and amongst it all.
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Hannah: Six months
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Hannah: I have. She's yes, she's seven months now. I don't know how it's happened. Time is going so fast.
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Hannah: It does? Yeah.
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Katie: This is flying by.
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Hannah: I can't wait to hear, like how you're managing to juggle it all. But first, can you remind me how we met? Because it was like back in the late noughties. Do you remember?
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Katie: Yeah. You're like, How did we meet? And I can't actually pin down when we did meet, but I know I was at college studying animation.
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Hannah: Oh, and then I bumped into you about. Maybe ten years later even. And you were doing something for thinking digital or was it thinking digital or was it Ted? Ted X Newcastle.
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Katie: Oh yeah. Ted X Yes. So that was..
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Hannah: And I was like, it's you!
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Katie: Yeah. So that was one where I went and I was like, Oh, I'm going to take my iPad and practise like drawing what people are talking about. And I was drawing the talks and posting them on Twitter and then the organiser was like messaged me on Twitter. I was like, Do you want to come up on stage and show your work? I was like, Oh my God. Because I wasn't an illustrator at that point.
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Katie: I thought you were working there and they'd employed you.
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Katie: This was like early days, just kind of seeing what it was like, whether I liked graphic recording and live illustrating and he had drawing stuff I was interested in. Like Ted talks.
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Hannah: Oooo, so. What the hell's live illustrating?
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Katie: Um, basically.. Yeah good question!
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Hannah: What are you doing??
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Katie: What am I doing? What is this thing? So it's been going since the graphic recording is kind of the more official word for it, and it's basically turning what people are talking about into pictures and making it graphically absorbable for your brain. So I go to meetings and events and turn. Boring is often very boring stuff. I turn boring stuff into pictures, but I can't say that it's boring. You're just going to make your information more accessible and engaging and memorable.
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Hannah: Yeah, because people learn in so many different ways. And presumably by the time you've finished with it, it's not boring at all.
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Katie: Hopefully I've done my job right. Yeah, but when I started out, I was painting on windows and stuff and it sort of has evolved over time. And obviously COVID and the lockdowns and everything changed how I worked and led me to where I am now. It's kind of a long journey.
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Hannah: Yeah. So we were back in touch like this time last year because I noticed you were part of the same brainstorming thing that I was brainstorming? master thing?
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Hannah: Mastermind. And so you said then in 2019, you were like earning £70 a week nannying. And obviously it's like, what, four or five years later and now you're very happily living off your income, doing this well, various different things. So what happened? How did you how did you turn it from.
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Katie: What happened.
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Hannah: From that to to what you're doing now?
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Katie: That's a good question. I mean, when I think back to like sort of 2018, 2019, I had my nanny job and I treated my nanny job - because I love working with children, have been a nanny for years. I treated that nanny job as kind of. My sugar daddy or something like it was just keeping me going so that I could do what I actually wanted to do, which was illustration and creative stuff on the side. But it was like having that day job, especially because it was part time, that just covered my essentials and it meant any money I made from illustration was like a bonus or extra. I think I needed to make a little bit. I think my goal was £400 a month to start with. So it gave me that freedom to just like experiment. Helen has a good phrase that you're throwing stuff at the wall and see what sticks. So I was just throwing things at the wall and also figuring out what I like to do because it was like, I think when you come out of uni, well, when I graduated, I got a job as a graphic designer in house and my lecturers were like, That's incredible. Like, this is the ultimate goal. You must be so pleased.
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Hannah: You've made it
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Katie: I've made it and oh my God, I hated it so much. It was just like soul destroying. And I didn't like working 9 to 5. I didn't like trying to concentrate for a full day. I didn't like emailing people two metres away from me. It just even the lighting upset me. Yeah, fluorescent lights and stuff. I was like, I'm, I'm not built for this world. So I was fired and then went to work back at my job at Lush, then in bathbombs. I thought, This is way better than being a graphic designer. Never mind.
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Hannah: Wow, I'd rather be inside. Was it Eldon Square with no natural sunlight? Then in that place.
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Katie: I would rather, like, inhale essential oils all day and talk to people.
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Hannah: I mean, who wouldn't
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Katie: Exactly. And that was kind of the first chunk of like being like this is not for me. And it was. And then I became a nanny again. And it was so fast forward from then to 2018, meandering. At that point I was like, I'd done my master's degree. That was a big deal. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I've got a master's degree. And that made me feel more confident. And I'd met different people and I'd really got interested in like reportage. War artists and people drawing on the front line and stuff. And I was like, That's incredible that they can just create artwork on the spot and it really communicates what's going on. And then through that I discovered graphic recording and I was like, How do I even begin? Like, what is is this thing? And I can't remember even. It was like a little domino effect. So I was posting all my work online and Stella Artois saw my sketchbooks and were like, Could you go to a pub in Newcastle and draw on some glasses like draw your Newcastle skylines? And I was like, Yeah, like I could do that.
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Hannah: Will people be drinking out ff them at the same time?!
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Katie: Then I went on a Google mission got the right pens, practice and I was like fine. So it had done it and then they were like, Oh, that went well. Do you want to go to like Gloucester, Bristol, Cheltenham, all these random places drawing on glasses. And it obviously wasn't like my ultimate dream to draw on beer glasses in pubs with drunk people around me. But it was like it was live illustration and my first kind of dabbling into it, I was like, This is cool. There's no deadline. Well, there is a deadline, but I can't procrastinate because it's happening around me and I get to travel, which I love, and it was exciting and well paid, which was the big difference because I'd had no idea about pricing and things before that, but I was realising that I could charge kind of a decent chunk. And compared to nannying where I was getting £10 an hour, live illustrating at that time I would get more than ten times that. And that was a while ago. So it was like, Oh my goodness, I might actually be able to make a living doing this. I don't have to do it full time. So it went on and after Stella Artois I worked for Dove, they'd seen my work online and they had a big influencer event in London and I painted on a big window. And then from that Nespresso saw my work for Dove, and they were like, Could you paint our window? So I went to London again and painted a big window for Nespresso. And then in the background people kept asking me like, do you do you do like live notes, like at meetings and stuff? And I was like, I was like kind of snobby about it. I was like, That is so boring. I could not lower myself to drawing at your meeting. I mean, I was like.
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Hannah: That sounds like the front line, though, right?
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Katie: Exactly. Well, this is it. So then I was like, you know what? So many people keep asking. I can't keep saying no to everyone. You know, when the universe is trying to give you a message or something and it's like knocking on the window and I'm like, Goodbye, kissing my kittens. And then I was like, okay, I'll do one and I'll see how it goes. One. And then I even remember what the first one was. I think it was for Newcastle Uni or Northumbria, I forget which is which, and it went really well and I really enjoyed it. And then I started getting more and more bookings. It was filling up and then lockdown happened and basically everything was cancelled because it was all in person and I felt so panicky because I was like, Oh my God, things were going so well. And now it's not. There's nothing, you know, like there's a huge black hole of no work at all.
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Hannah: Not even online zoom meetings or anything like that.
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Katie: Well, this is the thing. I was like, you know, these huge companies and stuff that were just employing me last week, they're still going to be having meetings. So then I started like rewording how I was describing what I was doing and I researched how to make it work on Zoom and again had a couple of test runs with different clients, got some examples of my work, and then it picked up again like it had been offline, and this time it picked up even more because not many people were doing the online meetings thing, I think, or I don't know, for some reason it's got really busy and. I had more work than I could do and had to have. I still have a small team that I work with so that we can cover all the meetings and get them...
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Hannah: So you've got people that work with you now?
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Katie: Right, Exactly. So so that we can be in like three places at once, which is really exciting.
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Hannah: Great. So is that your main source of income is still through all the live illustrating and meeting work and stuff like that?
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Katie: It is, yeah. So we have, because, so obviously having a baby seven months ago, things have changed a lot. When I was pregnant, I just went like full pelt. I was going to do as much work as I can because I never know when I'm going to be able to work again. I didn't know like I was like if I'm ill or if the baby's not settling or if I don't want to leave the baby like so I was really I know. I was like batch worked a year's worth in six months.
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Hannah: Did you really?
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Katie: It was good, though. I enjoyed it.
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Hannah: You're crazy. Did you find like - I found when I was pregnant, I had. Well, towards the end especially, I suddenly had like so many ideas and so much energy, and I was like, I've got to get all this stuff done. Did that click in for you?
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Katie: Yeah, it was like nesting, but in my business as well, I think because even for the good ship I was like, we need to write lots of emails and get them banked up. So they go out all summer and yeah, with the, the jobs and things, I made sure that other illustrators had everything they needed for the jobs because there was a job happening on the day that I gave birth or I had the baby, I was like, Did the job go okay, I'm sorry, I'm just checking in.
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Hannah: Oh, wow. Well, whilst we're on the subject then, how did you prepare yourself so that you would be able to have time with the baby? Or do you find that you were still in your business?
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Hannah: Did you have a babymoon?
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Katie: I did have a.. So we went on a little holiday before when I was super pregnant. And towards the end of my pregnancy, I took Cameron with me to any online jobs and things. And it was almost like a holiday and not online to any in-person jobs. So we went to London for a really nice sort of overnight getaway, and then..
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Katie: We went to to Yorkshire. Pre-Baby. And then when the baby, when she was when she arrived, I took, I think it was four weeks completely off, like I didn't do any work and just sort of sat around on my dressing gown enjoying the cuddles and everything. That was really nice and having visitors. You know, it's like you get like overwhelmed with people coming to see you and cups of tea and everything. And then it was. But I say that, I was still I think when you're self-employed it's so hard to do no work because, I was like, there was a live call for the course and I'm like, the baby's sleeping. I'll just pop on the live call and see what's happening.
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Katie: And they were like what are you doing here?! She's two days old. Get off. But like, it's in your house. She's in the bassinet. And then when she started crying, I was like, okay, I'm going to go now. And hung up. But it was I think it's that you can't completely switch off or I can't anyway.
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Hannah: It's also your community, though. They're your friends.
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Katie: Yeah, exactly. The like who want to see the baby. Yeah.
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Hannah: Like you wouldn't want to not because it's... I think when you have your own business, it's like your life and your work merges to become one thing. So you wouldn't not be doing those things even though you've got a baby or whatever, or you're on holiday because it's your other baby.
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Katie: Exactly. Yeah. I think, like, if I worked for a big corporate company and I was on maternity leave, that would be like a goodbye. You are not seeing me at all. Like, I will not be checking emails or anything, but when it's your own thing, I think, like, my business is my first baby a little bit in a way, and it's almost like a check in on it. Check it all right. Look after the new baby.
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Hannah: Yeah, this baby is here. But what about that baby?
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Katie: Yeah, exactly.
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Hannah: But you obviously had plenty of people within your business that could keep things ticking over as well, which helps.
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Katie: Yes. Yeah. And Cameron, my husband, he does all the accounting and invoicing stuff, so that's super helpful. And have an assistant, Emma, who keeps on top of the emails and then obviously two illustrators and an animator who who kept the jobs going when I was completely off. Excuse me. And, and yeah, like an accountant and stuff. So all I have to do really is show up and draw. And that has been brilliant in maternity leave because. Well, it's not maternity leave but when I've got the small baby because if there's a job it's one hour. So I just make sure she's fed, give her to granny or dad. And then I'm like, I'll be back in one hour and go do the job, come back. And it's it's not like going back to work full time. It's just like nipping off for an hour here and there, which I quite like.
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Hannah: Yeah, because I think I remember there were times when you are under a small child and you're like, I really want to do this thing. Like for me, like and I think it's something to do with the lack of time and the lack of ability to type with one hand and that kind of thing, that makes you really crave that. Just a little bit of time to go and do something that's on my mind, like writing something up or I don't know, whatever it is.
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Katie: Yeah. I feel like your brain changes as well. It's almost like I needed to do stuff to stimulate my brain again. So it just turned to mush of like. I need to listen to an online webinar about financial inclusion and draw the pictures. I was like, Oh, yes, good. My brain cells are still working.
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Hannah: I can still do the front line.
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Katie: Yes, exactly.
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Hannah: So obviously your your stuff with the good ship, that's more along the lines of supporting people who want to get into the industry. Is that right?
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Katie: That's right, yes. It's illustrators at whatever bit of their career they're in. So we have, we kind of have like a full spectrum. So there's published illustrators who are just wanting to kind of boost their portfolio or refine their work or get in touch with what they really want to be doing. And then there's like complete beginners who have no formal training. You know, if you're really perfectionistic and stuck in a certain way of drawing, they kind of bust you out of that. And a lot of like perfectionism stuff, like being scared of starting all that, all the silliness and deftness of art club can kind of bust people out of that.
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Hannah: Yeah, that totally links in with my word for this year, which is play because I get so stuck in I want this thing to be perfect or I'll never make it. So why even try? I'm like, if I treat it as just a bit of play, then at least it gets my foot in the door and I'm just tentatively looking around and.
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Katie: Yeah, and playing makes everything easier, doesn't it? You're just having a laugh.
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Hannah: Yeah. Who cares? Doesn't matter if nobody listens or nobody reads or it's a pile of poo.
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Katie: I love it. How is the word being going so far? Have you done things you wouldn't have done if play wasn't your word?
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Hannah: I feel like every time I do a podcast, I have to go. It's just for play. Otherwise, I get really, like, tense.
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Hannah: It doesn't matter, honestly.
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Katie: It's not real.
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Hannah: Yeah, it's just for play.
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Hannah: So, yes, it's good. So do you have any advice for anybody who's starting out then in a creative industry? What would you kind of tell them to do to begin with. Other than play.
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Katie: Other than play. Well play is very important, definitely. I think one of the things that I encourage people to do is to keep keep the day job for for a while, like, even if it's part time. That just makes it so much easier on your creative work because you're not putting all of this pressure on it to be a success and for your like own nervous system, you know that your bills are covered and you know, it's almost like that safety of the boring. Was it the muggle stuff like the human being? Pay your bills, be a sensible adult is solid so that you can really make space for the creative stuff and having fun. And it also means if clients come to you and they say like, Oh, our budget is only £30, you can be like, All right, well, I can't do it. I can't afford to do that. But you know that you don't have to be like, okay, anything. Like, I'll just take it. Like, get rid of gets rid of that desperate feeling. Yeah. So, yeah, that's my that would be my advice. If somebody is starting out and wants to be an illustrator or a designer or I think anything creative, fine artist.
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Hannah: You know the other thing about having a day job is you don't have time to do the thing you want to do as much. So it creates a bit of a like. Almost a constraint on your time so that when you actually have your time, you're like so desperate to do it because you've been at your day job all day being like, Why am I answering the phone to this or stacking these beans on a shelf or whatever it is? Then you get home and you can be like super creative because you've been fired up all day.
00:20:39 - 00:20:46
Katie: And you totally appreciated it because you're like, Oh my goodness, I'm doing the thing I want to do and I have 2 hours to do it so I can't faff about too much.
00:20:46 - 00:20:53
Hannah: Mess around. Whereas if you were sat in your dressing gown all day being like, Right, I'm going to write the novel of the century, you'd never do it.
00:20:54 - 00:20:57
Katie: No, I definitely would never do anything if I had all day to do it.
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Hannah: Yeah, it's the worst.
00:20:59 - 00:21:05
Katie: Which is. Yeah, that's why I'm a Live Illustrator because I'm such a terrible procrastinator. I could just never do anything ever again.
00:21:05 - 00:21:29
Hannah: Yeah, that's why I do this with the podcasting. I'm, like, forcing myself because on the way in, I'm like, Why am I doing this? This is terrifying. I've got all these fabulous people coming to speak to me and I'm just going to mess it up and I just want to sit in a cave and it's like it's happening. You're on the roller coaster. You got to do it. And then at the end of the day. At the end of the day I'll be like, Oh, I'm really pleased I did that.
00:21:30 - 00:21:41
Katie: Yeah, it's like that with so many things, isn't it? It's like just taking the first little step, like getting to the studio, booking the things, or it's happening regardless.
00:21:41 - 00:21:47
Hannah: Exactly. And then you've got other people like, I've got Lewis here who's helping me, and it's like, Right, I have to show up.
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00:21:48 - 00:22:25
Hannah: Yeah. So the thing I find is that when you're in the day to day. How do you know what to do first? Do you know what I mean? So, like, do I write the blog post or do I concentrate on social media, or do I look for paid work, or do I keep focusing on building the audience? Or should I write the book or should I focus on the podcast? You know, when you're juggling all these different bits and you're first starting out, it's just difficult to know in the here and now what you should be doing. Do you have a process of going right or like back in the day, did you?
00:22:26 - 00:23:11
Katie: Definitely. If I'm feeling really, like, overwhelmed and like, I don't even know if there's a list like huge brain dump list of like 12,000 things. And I don't know where to start just writing like at the top of the page. What three things would drive my business forward today and then like three will or at least one will pop into your head straightaway as you write it down and then just have three. And I think that a thing of only doing three things. Is amazing. And a lot of the time, not always. You'll do the three things and then you be like, You know, I'm kind of on a roll now. I'm just going to carry on. Like if you if you said, like draft a blog post, you might be like, Well, it's done. I'm just going to post it and add some pictures and do the stuff, you know? So it's like just tiny little steps and tricking yourself into doing it.
00:23:12 - 00:23:14
Hannah: Getting started and then going...
00:23:15 - 00:23:31
Katie: Because you can't do everything at once, which is really sad because I know, like when you think of all the ideas, you're like, I want to do them all right, now I need to like, build an audience and write the blog post. And so my search engine optimisation out and write a course and create this. Yeah, it's there's not enough time in one day.
00:23:31 - 00:23:38
Hannah: Yeah. So I write a really great book called The One Thing, something like that. Oh, you probably read it.
00:23:38 - 00:23:39
Katie: That's a good one.
00:23:39 - 00:24:01
Hannah: It's really good and kind of, but it's like, which one thing? So yeah, if I go right, I'm doing a podcast, I've got my blog and I need to get the search engine up on that. And here's the premise of his book is like, choose one thing and spend 4 hours a day doing it. But I guess you need it to be broad enough so that it would cover a few things.
00:24:02 - 00:24:06
Katie: Yeah. Like, is there another one called Essentialism? The same idea?
00:24:06 - 00:24:07
00:24:07 - 00:24:11
Katie: And it's got a squiggle on the front and it's yellow. That's a good book.
00:24:11 - 00:24:21
Hannah: To do with, like, minimisation and stuff. And I think with creative brains, we can be quite, like, muddled and lots different things.
00:24:21 - 00:24:30
Katie: Like, having loads of ideas is a superpower. And it's also kind of can stop you doing anything because you're like, my babies, Look at them all. I must make them all happen. I can't leave any behind.
00:24:30 - 00:24:34
Hannah: Yeah. So like yeah, I think.
00:24:34 - 00:24:55
Katie: That perpetual principle thing as well. Like, you know, 20% of your stuff creates 80% of your income. So it's kind of figuring out what the 20% is because a lot of the stuff is just pointless and you don't need to worry about it like. It'll be different for everybody, you know, which 20% is faffing about and which 20% is going to be the golden nuggets that
00:24:56 - 00:24:56
Hannah: Yeah. Really counts.
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00:24:58 - 00:25:01
Hannah: And it's all trial and error at the end of the day.
00:25:01 - 00:25:02
00:25:02 - 00:25:16
Hannah: Isn't it you've got to kind of approach here, I guess with the idea of play and being like, well I'll try all these things and. a) see what I really enjoy and b) see what brings in money or attention or whatever it is that you're trying to cultivate at that time.
00:25:16 - 00:25:32
Katie: Giving it a bit of time as well, I think because sometimes things take a wee while and it can be like you try something and it doesn't work instantly. So you get fed up and you give up on it. But it could be that you would just like a tiny chunk away from it working and you just never know
00:25:33 - 00:25:53
Hannah: Yeah exactly. I'm working on SEO related stuff at the moment where you have to write like they suggest a blog a day and they give you like suggested titles and stuff. And I'm like, I couldn't physically do it anyway, but they're like, you know, it's going to take six months before you start to see results. And I'm like, Oh, that's a lot of time.
00:25:55 - 00:25:56
Katie: don't have this time.
00:25:57 - 00:26:05
Hannah: Can I really just keep churning things out for six months with no reward until six months time? And it's all about...
00:26:05 - 00:26:26
Hannah: That's an interesting one, isn't it? Because I think we're so used to getting instant feedback, aren't we, with social media? Like you put a poster up, people like it straight away. And I think with the long form content, like blogs and maybe not so much YouTube videos, but blogs, you write a blog and it's crickets, nothing, but you don't know who's reading it on the other side and who's Googling it to find that exact information.
00:26:26 - 00:26:48
Hannah: That's the thing. And it takes time. Like I had one. It was something like mummy tummy workouts and it got to the point where it was getting like, I don't know, tens of thousands of people clicking on it every month. Yeah, I'm like, Oh, but it took a long time to get there. So it was maybe two years after I actually wrote it that it suddenly Google went, All right, we'll start sending you some traffic.
00:26:49 - 00:26:52
Katie: Yeah, it's mad. Who knows how Google works?
00:26:52 - 00:26:58
Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. Then it's like, is it even worth it.? I think it's worth.
00:27:00 - 00:27:01
Katie: It's worth it.
00:27:01 - 00:27:36
Hannah: You just got to pick a thing and do it. Do it for a while. So I'd love to hear a little bit more to end on about kind of motherhood and how you're running a business alongside looking after your little one. And obviously, we've talked about the fact that you were able to take some time off and you've got your team around you who kind of could facilitate this. But now that she's a bit older, she's not sleeping as much. Like, how are you finding this juggle of mum and work and life and..
00:27:36 - 00:27:46
Katie: Yeah, it's tricky. It has been hard. Like I think when you're pregnant, you have this thing of like, oh, people say it's hard. They're just they don't know it's going to be fine.
00:27:46 - 00:27:49
Hannah: I'll be exactly the same as I was before.
00:27:49 - 00:28:45
Katie: Yeah, just have a baby to sort childcare out for. But you have the baby like I don't want anybody to look after the baby. Just me. So that's. That was a shock to start with. I just assumed that I would be fine to like. Leave the baby with people. And I didn't want to do that at all for ages. Even now, I'm like, Will you be all right? I hope you're okay. And it's getting easier as time goes on. Juggle wise at the moment? I just work way less than I used to because I used to just come to the studio and spend the whole day here. I would love to know actually what I was doing before. What did I do with the whole day in the studio, because now I get into the studio and I've got 2 hours go and it's just like the 2 hours are chock full of stuff. And then I go home and I'm like, Well, that's all my work done. I'm just, I'm finished. So I don't know. I would love to know what I was faffing about with before.
00:28:46 - 00:28:49
Hannah: Making tea. Tidying surfaces.
00:28:51 - 00:30:12
Katie: Looking at Instagram. Cleaning. Yeah. Just. Anyways, so that's been a nice silver lining is that I'm very efficient now because I have to be and. And yes, at the moment the set up is that I am with. So on a monday morning, she's with a babysitter for a couple of hours and that's so I can get to the studio. And that is amazing on a monday morning to be able to go into the office as if, you know, like I did in the past and get everything organised, email everybody. You make sure the weeks are organised and then the rest of Monday and Tuesday it's me and her together, just chillin, floating around, maybe go swimming, go for a walk. It's very like relaxed. And it's funny because I was a nanny for so many years. I think at first it was really hard for it not to feel like work, which was really weird because I was like, Oh, I used to get paid for this and now nobody's paying me just to have to like, push the pram around for free. Yeah, which is a terrible attitude to have your own child, but that's worn off now. And I'm like, No, we can do anything. We can go in the car, we can have fun. It's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:12 - 00:30:14
Hannah: Yeah, yeah. No, I totally get that.
00:30:15 - 00:30:43
Katie: And we're very lucky that Cameron's home the rest of the week. So from Wednesday onwards, there's two of us, and it's much easier to be like, I'm just going to do this. So he's pops out, you know, it's more of a like, even sharing then, which I like. And yeah, Thursday mornings are studio time as well. But the other times I just try and when she's napping I get stuff done or when she's asleep after 7 p.m., I get stuff done.
00:30:43 - 00:30:43
Hannah: After 7pm?!
00:30:45 - 00:30:46
00:30:46 - 00:30:49
Hannah: You're a machine
00:30:49 - 00:30:49
Katie: Go to bed!
00:30:49 - 00:30:53
Hannah: I literally was in bed last night at half past 7.
00:30:53 - 00:31:24
Katie: Oh my goodness. Well that's understandable. And I was going to say a lot of the time I don't do anything because I am just exhausted. And that's been, I think, hard to get used to because before I would just go go, go, go, go, do all the work, keep going and work to deadlines. And now I just don't want to. And also, like, if she's been not sleeping very well or anything, I just can't like, I'm just exhausted, have no bandwidth left for anything. So that's. Yeah, it is. It's been tough and interesting and fun all the same time.
00:31:24 - 00:31:27
Hannah: Yeah, that pretty much sums up motherhood.
00:31:28 - 00:31:37
Katie: Yeah. And every time I'm like, I'm like, Oh, cool, we've got it sorted. Like she's sleeping and this is easy. And then it'll change. I mean, so there's no point.
00:31:38 - 00:31:46
Hannah: Every week is different. Yeah, for sure. Like there'll be a wonder week or they're teething or and then all of a sudden there are little rays of sunshine again and you're like ah!
00:31:46 - 00:31:50
Katie: Then you really appreciate it. Like, oh, you're so content.
00:31:51 - 00:31:56
Hannah: Yes. Everyone say, Isn't she a happy baby? You were like, you didn't see her every night.
00:31:56 - 00:31:57
Katie: Yeah, exactly.
00:31:59 - 00:32:01
Hannah: So top tips for staying sane.
00:32:04 - 00:32:09
Katie: I don't think I've seen that. There's no tips.
00:32:09 - 00:32:09
Hannah: There's no tips, just exist
00:32:10 - 00:32:46
Katie: Just like, Oh, yeah, people know. I think actually people told me horror stories the whole time I was pregnant about how terrible the newborn stage was and how I was going to get postpartum depression and it was going to be horrendous. And I was so ready for it. I was like, okay, the newborn is here. Bring on the terrible depression and the hating my life. And I was like, And then I felt really had a flip side thing of like feeling really guilty about how much I was enjoying it and how lovely it was because I was like, I'm not supposed to be enjoying this because everybody said it was going to be horrible. So I would say like, Don't listen to anybody. Don't let people tell you any stories when you're pregnant.
00:32:46 - 00:33:04
Hannah: Yeah, just, Oh, God, I know I avoided all of that because I just thought it's going to be what it's going to be. And if I find, you know, you don't know until you're in it. You can't prepare for it because it is you know, it is exhausting at times and it is tiring, but there's so many rewards to it, too.
00:33:05 - 00:33:10
Katie: And also, each baby is different. But you figured that out with having two.
00:33:10 - 00:33:12
Hannah: Mine were exactly the same.
00:33:12 - 00:33:14
Katie: Oh were they!
00:33:14 - 00:33:16
Hannah: Really weird. They were like, literally the same baby.
00:33:17 - 00:33:19
Katie: Oh, that's good. You got a practise one.
00:33:19 - 00:33:22
Hannah: Like, you know, neither of them slept very well, but it was fine.
00:33:23 - 00:33:23
Katie: That's right
00:33:23 - 00:33:29
Hannah: You get through it. Oh, well, thank you so much. That's been absolutely fascinating and fun and lovely to see you.
00:33:29 - 00:33:30
Katie: Thank you for having me.
00:33:32 - 00:33:33
Katie: Lovely. See you, too.
00:33:35 - 00:33:59
Hannah: Thank you so much for listening. And I'll see you next time for another episode of Happily Ever After with me, Hannah Harvey. It would be wonderful if you could leave a review and subscribe. And of course, if you've got a friend who might enjoy this episode, then please do pass it on for anything else. You can get in touch with me through either Instagram @MumsDays or through my website Mums' Days dot com.