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Hannah: Welcome to Happily Ever After the podcast where we talk about life's big stories from great sex to sexual trauma. Break-ups and breakdowns. Icky secrets and happy endings. It's the stuff that makes us human. And boy, do we cover it all. I'm your host, Hannah Harvey. I'm a writer and a parenting blogger at Mums Days dot com. That's M.U.M.S.D.A.Y.S .com. I would be very grateful if you could subscribe and leave a review because it means more people can find the podcast. And I also really, really, really love hearing from you, so please contact me through Instagram @Mumsdays with all your stories of life and any thoughts you might have on the episode or even questions you want answering. You can find all the details from this episode in the show notes.
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Hannah: Hello and welcome to Happily Ever After with me, Hannah. And today I am talking about dating with Katie, my mate.
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Katie: Hello.
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Hannah: Katie is a regular on the podcast but haven't been on for ages.
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Katie: That's true.
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Hannah: But basically Katie helps me produce the podcast and do social media stuff, and you're a very busy bee in your own right as well. So thanks for coming on. We've both recently had time being single. Not that recently for you.
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Katie: No, but it has happened in my life.
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Hannah: You didn't come out of the womb with a boyfriend.
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Katie: Yeah. No, I didn't. I've had a few of them along the way, though.
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Hannah: Have you? So when was the last time you were single?
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Katie: So it'll be sort of a roundabout two years ago now for me. So, um,
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Hannah: Is that when you came back north?
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Katie: That's right. Yeah. So, not so long ago that I don't know about internet dating, but still a while ago, where I have forgotten little bits and pieces.
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Hannah: I should also point out Katie is a good eight years younger than me.
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Katie: I am 32.
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Hannah: So you're still like spring chicken territory, really?
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Katie: Right on the in the sort of bracket of the dating scene where everybody's kind of quite desperate to get married, I think, but not so desperate they won't go on a few dates first, so that's nice.
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Hannah: That's always good. So, okay, before we get into that, because that sounds juicy as, um, dating apps. That seems to be the way, isn't it?
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Katie: Yeah. Which I'm in sort of I feel. Like two ways about it. Like, I think it's really great that we have a place where everybody who's single can just go on there and talk to each other. But then at the same time, it has completely gotten rid of naturally meeting somebody. Now, that's the kind of thing just doesn't happen anymore.
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Hannah: Right. That was something that really surprised me when I became single, is that I don't know if it's just because of a certain age. My assumption was probably that everybody in fact, I felt like this. So I probably manifested it. I was like, everybody is in a relationship except me. So there isn't that sort of. Wink wink thing. But also, you know, when you were younger and going out and getting absolutely shitfaced, that's not necessarily the best way to meet somebody.
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Katie: No, no. It's definitely not.
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Hannah: I mean, you might. I mean, that is how lots of my friends met their soul mate.
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Katie: Yeah of course.
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Hannah: But it's also how you meet the douchebags.
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Katie: And I think it was the done thing in your 20s, or at least when we were in our 20s it was. Now they've got the option to go on the apps as well, which I think is nice. You don't have to be on a night out. And get hammered.
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Hannah: Yeah, it. I guess it takes out that like meet cute aspect of it, but equally it means you can discount. The people that you wouldn't be interested in unless you were drunk.
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Katie: Which, let's be honest. It's a few more. A few more people.
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Hannah: There are a lot. So which apps have you used?
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Katie: So I. Before I got with my current boyfriend, I was in a relationship before that for six years, and so that was when I started dating him Internet dating apps weren't around, so I came to it for the first time a couple of years ago and it was very exciting, I must admit. So I downloaded them all. Obviously we had Tinder, Hinge, Bumble.
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Hannah: Did you do Hinge?
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Katie: I did hinge and they're all quite different. They've got their own little nuances and different people on there and I think they've all got their ups and downs actually. But there are definitely ones that I can say were better for me than others.
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Hannah: Which were?
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Katie: Well, I met my current partner on Bumble, which I liked because I didn't think I was going to like it because Bumble, you have to talk first because it's the woman that talks first.
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Hannah: Yeah. Women initiates.
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Katie: Yes.
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Hannah: Which I'm not sure how it works if you're same sex.
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Katie: No, I don't know how that works either.
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Hannah: Oh.
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Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Presumably, like it doesn't really work for men because then they wouldn't talk to each other, would they? But
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Hannah: That's what grindrs for.
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Katie: That's what grindr is for. Yes. Which I wasn't on. I didn't download Grindr. No.
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Hannah: It's Grindr available for women.
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Hannah: I don't think so. Maybe though, maybe it is.
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Hannah: You downloading it and you're the only woman in Northumberland. Why does nobody like me?!
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Katie: Listeners, if you could get in touch and let us know if there's Grindr for females we'd be interested.
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Hannah: Yeah.
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Katie: Um. Yeah. So I liked Bumble the best in the end because I didn't think I was going to be very good at the conversation openers. But it does actually challenge you to think about like whether you like these people or not and just.
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Hannah: Enough to speak to them.
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Katie: Exactly.
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Hannah: Whether it was just enough to see if they liked you back.
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Katie: Exactly. Yeah. Because like with Tinder and things like that, you can just swipe them all and it's like, I don't know, we'll see what comes of it. Whereas like, if you actually have to put the effort in to think about what to say to them, there's a bit extra in that, you know? So I liked it.
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Hannah: Good. So I had a horrible experience on Bumble where somebody I am pretty sure they were married or not available anyway, um, was quite like, well he basically opened with 'just to put it out there, I'm looking for the one and I want to get married and have children'. And I was like, Well, that's not me. But, you know, you're quite hot, so if you fancy going on a date anyway, let's do that.
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Katie: No harm in that.
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Hannah: Yeah. And he replied and was like, Oh, interesting. Okay. So we exchanged numbers and then one minute he'd be like, Hey, let's meet up. And then the next day would come and I'd be like, Are we still meeting up? And then he'd suddenly cancel. And then it happened again. And then he just out of the blue blocked me because I think I tried to call him to say like, where am I meeting you? And he just.
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Katie: You just couldn't get through.
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Hannah: He just blocked me.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: And I'm like, okay, that was not what. And he was quite full on and a bit rude.
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Katie: Oh, yeah, that doesn't sound fun.
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Hannah: No. So that was like my first proper, like - right, I'm going to date somebody properly. Like I dated, seen a few people and had some relationships after splitting up with my ex, but this was like the first time of being single for quite some time and then going, Right, I'm going to go back online. And that was the first experience. I'm like, Oh my God, all men are awful. Yeah.
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Katie: There are definitely things that put you off, aren't there? But there was, um, one of the first lots of messages that I'd sent to a guy was like quite full on to begin with, but I didn't really know what I was doing at the time. And like he'd messaged saying like, Can we meet up? And I'd been like, Well, not today, but maybe at some point in the future. And then the next message that came after that was, Fuck you, you fat bitch. I was like, Right, okay, well, I'm not going to talk to you anymore. I know. So there can be quite rude and off putting, but also you can get good things out of them too.
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Hannah: I mean, we were going to talk about red flags, so maybe we go straight in there, but I think. I mean, thank God he did. Can you imagine if you'd said yes and then found out that he was going to say things like that to you later down the line? It's like.
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Katie: Actually, yeah, that is a red flag, isn't it? If they're trying to make you come and meet them the same night you start talking, huge red flag.
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Hannah: Yeah, it depends what you're after. Obviously if you're after a one nighter, then that's great.
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Katie: No, but I still think you need the preamble first. Like.
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Hannah: Yeah, I suppose.
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Katie: Have a little bit of a chat, you know, before you launch straight into the one night stand.
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Hannah: Sounds like a lot of effort. Yeah.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: So dating profiles. How. What do you think?
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Katie: So again, it's different depending on which app you're using, isn't it? But like, I find it so difficult to put something together that's reflective of me and also not, like, really self-deprecating, you know, because it's you. It's like you're putting your life and soul out there, isn't it? You know.
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Hannah: I'll be honest, I never put anything on my profiles.
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Katie: That's terrible.
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Hannah: I would put maybe ten pictures up and a few things that I liked and then didn't put anything else.
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Katie: See. I don't think that's any good because then.
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Hannah: I still got plenty of people.
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Katie: Yeah, true. Yeah, I know. But I think you do
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Hannah: And it gives somebody a reason to maybe ask you some questions.
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Katie: Yeah, true.
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Hannah: What's going on in that picture? I found that the people who asked me immediately about the yoga pictures were the ones to red flag.
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Katie: Yeah. Well, that's the thing about just putting pictures up like with not much about you.
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Hannah: But maybe it's quite helpful because I was I learnt pretty quickly that anybody who was like, I really like your yoga picture. Was like, not going to be a guy I want to hang out with.
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Katie: No.
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Hannah: Which at first I was like, Oh, thanks.
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Katie: And then you realise that actually no. They're saying, I like your body.
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Hannah: I like what your bum is doing in those trousers, which, you know, great. I'm glad that you think that. But maybe keep that to yourself as an opener.
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Katie: Yeah, that's true. Don't go straight in with the bum compliment.
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Hannah: Yeah. So, yeah, I didn't. I was pretty. Low key and just stuck to a few pictures.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: Things that I'm interested in.
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Katie: Yeah, I mean, that's fair enough. And it is really hard to, like, put your heart on the line like that. But I think and like, put yourself out there for everybody to look at you. But I think the more information you include, the better matches you end up getting, because I started off that way as well, like with just a little bit of information in the profile and a couple of pictures where you can't even really see my face. Um, and not, not that you could see loads of my body. I just mean like.
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Hannah: Unlike my yoga pictures.
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Katie: Just mean like, you know, I'd have sunglasses on like, I don't know, friend would be in them, you know?
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Hannah: Yeah.
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Katie: Um, but then when I did write more about myself, I found that there was more like there was more for people to ask me about, you know, And it was stuff that I wanted to talk about as opposed to like, what kind of sunglasses I had on in that picture, you know?
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Hannah: Yeah. So were you quite specific with what you were looking for?
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Katie: Not necessarily. I was just honest about myself, like, and actually the way that I ended up with some actual content on the profile as opposed to it just being like a couple of things I like, was to ask a friend to do it for me.
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Hannah: Oh, really?
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Katie: Yeah. And she wrote, She was like, Not this picture, not this picture. Let's use that one instead. These are the things that I like about you. And then I edited it, obviously, and then put it up and I found that that actually made a big difference. Um, because they're nicer about you than you are about yourself.
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Hannah: So that's a top tip to get a friend to help you do it. And friends love this shit.
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Katie: They do love this shit.
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Hannah: They're like let's get you on dating profiles. And I'm like, okay.
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Katie: Especially the married ones. They like live vicariously through you, I think.
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Hannah: Yeah. I think some of my friends were definitely like, Oh, show me that one again. And yeah, it is quite fun. I suppose it depends because I think when I was going back into it, I was very much like, I just want somebody to have sex with. I was like, I'm going to say it. Like I wanted somebody that I liked, but they weren't going to be a big part of my life that I could go for nice meals with and see when I don't have my kids.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: So that probably alters what I was putting out there. I'm not looking for a soulmate. I'm looking for somebody to I'm looking for somebody to have fun with. And and if I put that in my profile, I think that would have maybe given the wrong impression.
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Katie: Yeah, I agree.
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Hannah: Yeah. Because there's a lot of, like, people writing one night stands only or open relationship offers, which makes me question are they really open or are you just cheating? Um.
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Katie: Yeah, I know. And like, there's all sorts of different like, what's the word for it where it's letters that mean something?
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Hannah: Yeah. Lots of acronyms.
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Katie: Acronyms. Thank you. Yeah, Yeah, Lots of different acronyms. I don't know what they mean. Like,
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Hannah: I know I had to Google things all the time.
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Katie: Bit of a minefield, actually. And I do think that, like, if somebody's.
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Hannah: And not good sense of humour, it was more like open polygamous.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: What's it called? Non-monogamy.
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Katie: Ethical non-monogamy?
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Hannah: Yeah, things like that.
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Katie: Which is fine. But I do think there's nowhere else that you see that. So like, have they been on the dating apps a while? Like, are you a whiz at this?
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Hannah: Well, I think if you're an ethical non-monogamous, you are going to have a permanent profile because you're always looking for somebody new to have sex with.
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Katie: Oh, that's true. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that.
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Hannah: Do you think they might be dopamine junkies?
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Katie: Definitely, yeah. Which we've all suffered from a little bit, I think.
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Hannah: I mean, it was exciting at the thought of it. And I did chat to one guy who. Well, he was definitely open in his profile about being into kinky stuff. So I was like, Tell me more. For, you know, research purposes for research.
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Katie: For research purposes.
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Hannah: I want to know all about it. What are you into? And he was. Looking for an open relationship.
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Katie: Right.
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Hannah: Like he he felt that he could love more than one person at a time, and that's what he was looking for.
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Katie: Right. So we didn't actually have an existing partner that he was with that he'd been with for a while. But that was the kind of relationship that he wanted.
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Hannah: Yeah. I mean. He was open to the idea of just exploring whatever his kinks were, but was also a bit like, but I might also want to be open, but not necessarily kind of thing, depending on because his argument was that it's a lot to ask one person to fulfil all your needs.
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Katie: Yeah, I think I agree with that. And like I really try not to be. You can't be judgy on these things. You've really got to keep an open mind. But I do always find myself wondering like, wonder what your past relationship was like, you know? And that's what they are seeking out in the future. You wonder whether like, something's gone wrong in the past.
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Hannah: I'd say almost certainly, and I certainly explored this in therapy a bit, kind of going, Is this the way forward? Is this what we're meant to be doing? But I think if your past relationship has ended, whatever way you are going to look at things like, well, was it the sex? Was it because I was too this and too that? And this guy did say that his past partner. He felt shame around his kinks.
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Katie: Right? Oh, that's interesting.
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Hannah: Which probably then meant he felt rejected or whatever else, and therefore is like, maybe I need multiple people because I can't expect one person to accept me as I am.
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Katie: That's so sad.
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Hannah: I know. Bless him, he seemed really lovely. Yeah, he seemed really lovely. And I just. But I mean. I guess this kind of leads me on to what I was going to talk about next, which is about how I've ended up seeing the person I'm seeing now, because the way it started was he wanted the person, the art teacher.
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Katie: The art teacher.
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Hannah: He wanted to date lots of people. And, you know, so he would see me and have a date, but then also see other people and date them too. And I found that really tough.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: So, you know, at the beginning when in fact, I met him, had a lovely, lovely date for the first time, and then the next day I just said, This isn't going to work. I met him and went for a walk and I was just like, I can't. I need I don't want to share you. I really like you, kind of thing.
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Katie: Yeah. And so how did it go from that to you now still seeing him?
00:17:57 - 00:18:17
Hannah: Well Katie. I did try and date a few other people, and I was like, They're not the same and it's not great, but. So I didn't want to. I could see potential in this guy and I didn't want to throw everything away because he wouldn't immediately commit to me.
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Katie: Yeah, I know.
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Hannah: I was so fucking hard.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: And there were times when I was in tears because I really liked him, but I needed to give him the space that he needed to come to terms with the fact that I'm amazing and he has to be with me.
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Katie: Yeah. And I think like as women as well, we have like every time you break up with somebody or it doesn't work out with somebody or you stop dating somebody, we've got like lots of other women and people around us going like, Oh, I'll never mind him. You can do better than him anyway. Like it's, it's, you know, you're the best ever, ever thing and you need to find somebody that you like. And I think, like, what we forget about is that relationships are compromise. Like it's not, and the other person actually matters. You know, it can't just be like I'm thinking only and solely about what I want. Like, it's the whole point of being in a relationship is that you've got to take the other person's needs into consideration as well, you know?
00:19:18 - 00:20:03
Hannah: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I guess I thought it was really, it was really good for me because I think in the past I have had co-dependency issues and that need that self, that validation from the other person to be like, You're really important. And at the time I was still going through therapy quite heavily and being like. Feeling empty. Quite a lot of the time. And it's like you can't rely on somebody else to fill that void. You've just got to do it yourself. Yeah. So actually, I think the process of seeing the art teacher has taught me how to just be like. I'm happy on my own, but I also really like hanging out with him. Yeah.
00:20:04 - 00:20:13
Katie: And it's a good balance that, you know, as long as you're not feeling like you need him to tell you that you're pretty and smart.
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Hannah: Oh, I totally need him to do that.
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Katie: Yeah, no, I know. But, like, as long as you feel like you are pretty and smart yourself as well, you know.
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Hannah: You can be like, Yeah, I appreciate all the time I have on my own. I have no interest in introducing him to my kids or anything like that. It's. Yeah, it's just a lovely grown up thing to be able to do at weekends. And if he tells me I'm pretty and smart, that's also nice.
00:20:40 - 00:20:44
Katie: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds great. Like, it seems like the perfect setup, you know?
00:20:44 - 00:21:32
Hannah: Yeah, But it really was hard. Because, like, for the whole, I don't know, I think it was like maybe five months before we finally said it's exclusive. And, and so it was around that time that I'm chatting to this guy who's into non-monogamy, and it was a message from him that made me be like. Oh God, I don't want to share this other guy. I just want to be seeing him. But, you know, in order to kind of distract myself, I was chatting to other people as well. But then at the same time, it did help me see exactly what I wanted. It was interesting to date other people and. Um. Not feel like I'm putting all my eggs in one basket immediately and to just disconnect from that, like, because the first bit is all dopamine.
00:21:32 - 00:21:58
Katie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And we're so like, I think it's like if you've got low self esteem, which a lot of women do, then it's really easy to just like flick open your little app on a night when you're sat by yourself and go. Hey, can you tell me I'm pretty and smart because I'm feeling like I need that right now, you know? And we don't need that. We don't actually need that. We need to find out how to feel like that by ourselves before we can get somebody else involved, you know?
00:21:58 - 00:22:11
Hannah: Oh, my God. I know. I mean, that's all Becci, isn't it? Last week, the whole like, look after yourself first and then invite somebody else in. But yeah, the dating app swipe is so addictive.
00:22:11 - 00:22:12
Hannah: It really is.
00:22:12 - 00:22:18
Hannah: I think I watched whole episodes of stuff and never watched any of it because I was just swiping. Please tell me I'm pretty. Please tell me I'm pretty.
00:22:19 - 00:22:47
Katie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, and it can it is addictive because it's just like a social media app. It's really easy to do. There seem to be like endless people out there who are available at that point to tell you that you're pretty and smart. It's like really addictive. And I think it's really important that, especially if you're getting into it for the first time, like it's the first experience you've had on dating apps that you look after your mental health while you're doing it because you can get so sucked in and reliant on it.
00:22:49 - 00:22:50
Hannah: Yes.
00:22:51 - 00:22:54
Katie: They can be horrible, but they can be great.
00:22:54 - 00:23:06
Hannah: I mean, it can. It was Tinder that I met the art teacher on, and I also met some hideous people on there, so. It's just luck of the draw, isn't it?
00:23:07 - 00:23:24
Katie: It is. But like. So it is what you make of it as well though. So like, um, I always thought if I ever went back to it like the. I would do my little hour on the app or whatever it was, and then make sure I did something for myself for an hour afterwards, you know, because it's like
00:23:25 - 00:23:25
Hannah: It's so hard though.
00:23:25 - 00:23:26
Katie: I know it's hard.
00:23:26 - 00:23:34
Hannah: Especially at the beginning. It's all just that excitement of like, Oh, who's this? Will he be matching with me and?
00:23:35 - 00:23:39
Katie: But then the second you get that dip after the dopamine high, it's like.
00:23:39 - 00:23:41
Hannah: You feel shit about yourself.
00:23:41 - 00:23:42
Katie: Yeah. Exactly.
00:23:42 - 00:23:52
Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. Very, very true. So top tips for using the app would be. Time limits. Yeah.
00:23:52 - 00:23:54
Katie: Look after yourself while you're doing it.
00:23:55 - 00:24:02
Hannah: Make sure you do something else that's just for you afterwards and not obsessing. Yeah, because it's a numbers game as well. It really is.
00:24:02 - 00:24:06
Katie: Yeah. Maybe turn off notifications. I don't know whether you should have notifications on.
00:24:06 - 00:24:19
Hannah: Yeah, I never had notifications on. I always had them switched off, which the art teacher didn't. So occasionally the phone would flash up with a message on Tinder and I'd be like, Oh, that was a bit of my heart breaking.
00:24:20 - 00:24:24
Katie: Yeah, see. That's that's not beneficial for anybody. Nobody's enjoying those notifications.
00:24:27 - 00:24:40
Hannah: Oh, joys. But, you know. I'm really glad that I did wait it out because I learnt a lot from it. And I think those early days you can be really sucked into like, Oh my God, I'm completely falling in love with this person.
00:24:40 - 00:24:40
Katie: Yeah.
00:24:40 - 00:24:57
Hannah: And then a month or two later you're like, Oh no, what was I thinking? So I think slowing it right down has meant that it's like 7 or 8 months now since we've been dating and I still feel is excited to see him as I do back then.
00:24:57 - 00:24:57
Katie: That's nice.
00:24:57 - 00:24:58
Hannah: Isn't that nice.
00:24:58 - 00:24:59
Katie: Yeah, really nice.
00:25:00 - 00:25:05
Hannah: So this will probably go live when I'm in Madrid with him.
00:25:05 - 00:25:06
Katie: Nice.
00:25:06 - 00:25:16
Hannah: On holiday. So we're like, doing really nice things together. And it's very mindful when we're together. We're not really on our phones. No other distractions. We just get to hang out.
00:25:16 - 00:25:21
Katie: Yeah, and that's important in, like, all relationships, I think.
00:25:21 - 00:25:37
Hannah: Yeah, Because I think when you start getting into the day to day stuff, it can be a bit like, Are you making tea and who's taking the bins out? And it's just life, isn't it? Whereas if you can like, I mean it's the cliche of like date night and all that kind of stuff to keep things going, but.
00:25:37 - 00:25:43
Katie: Well, it's a cliche for a reason. It's because it's important, you know, You gotta keep that stuff going, don't you?
00:25:43 - 00:25:47
Hannah: Yeah, because it's not going to. Quality time doesn't happen on its own.
00:25:47 - 00:25:47
Katie: No it doesn't.
00:25:47 - 00:25:51
Hannah: Unless you're really, really good at switching the telly off and.
00:25:51 - 00:25:53
Katie: Nobody's good at switching the telly off.
00:25:54 - 00:25:56
Hannah: Your phone off and all that kind of stuff.
00:25:56 - 00:25:57
Katie: Yeah.
00:25:57 - 00:26:09
Hannah: Yeah. So two things we were going to talk about were. What to do on a date and also red flags.
00:26:09 - 00:26:10
Katie: Yes. Okay.
00:26:10 - 00:26:16
Hannah: So probably before you even get on a date, there are probably some red flags.
00:26:16 - 00:26:17
Katie: To look out for.
00:26:17 - 00:26:23
Hannah: Which may seem like really fucking obvious to everybody else, but I feel like I've learned the hard way.
00:26:23 - 00:26:25
Katie: Yeah. Okay, so tell us your red flags
00:26:25 - 00:26:29
Hannah: Okay. Would you like to hear. Love Bombing,
00:26:29 - 00:26:30
Katie: Yeah.
00:26:30 - 00:26:37
Hannah: So the person who comes straight on is like, Oh my God, I love your yoga photo. And then just loads of ejaculation emojis.
00:26:39 - 00:26:42
Katie: Yeah, that never happened to me.
00:26:42 - 00:26:48
Hannah: Yeah, that happened to me. And. I should have just blocked.
00:26:48 - 00:26:49
Katie: Of course you should have.
00:26:52 - 00:26:57
Hannah: Oh. But when you're, like, in self validation mode, it's like, Thank you so much.
00:26:57 - 00:27:00
Katie: Lovely Ejaculation emojis, great.
00:27:00 - 00:27:02
Hannah: And also, if you think they're hot.
00:27:02 - 00:27:03
Katie: Yeah, true.
00:27:03 - 00:27:07
Hannah: So you're looking at their pictures and going, Yeah, that's a bit of all right.
00:27:08 - 00:27:12
Katie: No, ejaculation emoji is definitely a red flag - block.
00:27:12 - 00:27:13
Katie: Oh
00:27:13 - 00:27:15
Katie: Sorry, Hannah.
00:27:15 - 00:27:20
Hannah: Well, you heard it here first. Obviously dick pics.
00:27:21 - 00:27:21
Katie: Yes.
00:27:22 - 00:27:24
Hannah: I mean, this is really obvious.
00:27:24 - 00:27:27
Katie: They happen more than you think they do.
00:27:27 - 00:27:32
Hannah: So much more. And it doesn't take much to get one.
00:27:32 - 00:27:36
Katie: No, it really doesn't. Hello will do normally.
00:27:36 - 00:27:43
Hannah: I mean, you can't send pictures through the apps. It's when you get onto WhatsApp. So you have got to the point where you're on WhatsApp with somebody.
00:27:43 - 00:27:43
Katie: Yeah.
00:27:44 - 00:27:49
Hannah: But that doesn't necessarily mean. That you were saying, please send me your dick.
00:27:49 - 00:27:51
Katie: No, really doesn't like.
00:27:53 - 00:27:54
Hannah: It's victim blaming.
00:27:54 - 00:28:04
Katie: Yeah it is. I feel like you don't have to say anything to get the dick pics. Sometimes it just comes through anyway. Hello, Katie. Here's my penis. Lovely. Thank you.
00:28:06 - 00:28:13
Hannah: And it is a crime now, I should say, to send somebody a picture like that without you asking.
00:28:13 - 00:28:15
Katie: Yeah. So consent before dick pics please.
00:28:16 - 00:28:21
Hannah: Yeah. And the other thing I put there is sexting very early on.
00:28:21 - 00:28:22
Katie: Yeah that's true. Yeah.
00:28:22 - 00:28:33
Hannah: But it's really quick and easy to get into it, especially if you're like ovulating and you're on your tinder anyway and you're like, I really would like to have some fun with somebody.
00:28:33 - 00:28:34
Katie: Yeah, that's true.
00:28:34 - 00:28:46
Hannah: You can very quick- and it is fun, but I guess it's just - be careful because you still have to meet this person in person and you might not like them as much when you see them in person.
00:28:46 - 00:28:46
Katie: Yeah.
00:28:46 - 00:28:50
Hannah: Experience has been had here and then you're like. Oh.
00:28:50 - 00:28:57
Katie: I know. And then, but then they already feel like they've crossed a boundary with you because you've had the sexty conversation.
00:28:57 - 00:29:08
Hannah: Yeah, but then it's like you're chatting with somebody. And there's only so much you want to talk about what they had for tea. But you're still not seeing them until Friday.
00:29:08 - 00:29:09
Katie: I like it.
00:29:09 - 00:29:11
Hannah: I love talking about tea.
00:29:11 - 00:29:11
Katie: I do
00:29:12 - 00:29:15
Hannah: Love dinners. Love pudding. I love breakfast.
00:29:16 - 00:29:21
Katie: I do yeah. Don't like ejaculation emoji. Just me?
00:29:23 - 00:29:31
Hannah: Oh. Um. Yeah. So I guess those are mine. But I think a big one that people don't necessarily notice is the love bombing.
00:29:31 - 00:29:32
Katie: Yeah, I agree.
00:29:32 - 00:29:49
Hannah: Someone being super, super, super into you feels great. But it's also, you know, when you look at all the things to do with domestic abuse, it's the first sign of somebody who could potentially be like controlling or abusive.
00:29:49 - 00:30:01
Katie: Yeah. And like, it's like if they obviously we want them to compliment us. Like, that's part of it. But like, you just. Yeah, you got to watch out for those ones where you feel like it's a bit too good to be true.
00:30:01 - 00:30:08
Hannah: Yeah. So my example of this is I met this lovely guy, had kids, um.
00:30:08 - 00:30:10
Katie: With the guy? That was quick.
00:30:10 - 00:30:26
Hannah: I didn't. He did. I have kids, he had kids. And he, he was, you know, really keen to meet. So we met for a coffee, very complimentary. But he slagged his ex off the whole way around the walk.
00:30:27 - 00:30:28
Katie: That's a red flag.
00:30:28 - 00:30:39
Hannah: Big red flag. So anybody talking about how awful their ex is, is not, that's another one of the stages of domestic abuse.
00:30:39 - 00:30:40
Katie: Yeah.
00:30:41 - 00:31:01
Hannah: So avoid those. I'm probably giving people tips on what not to do. Yeah um. So he did that and I was like, Oh, he's really fit. But he's talked about his ex a lot. So I knew that that was a red flag, but I was still like, But maybe because he's fit. I'll give him a second chance. And he was really like, love bombing me.
00:31:02 - 00:31:15
Katie: I feel like you should work up like a bit of trust as well before you get into that sort of stuff. Anybody that's just like blah blah blah blah about their ex straight away. Like that's totally a red flag because they obviously don't care how that's going to make you feel.
00:31:15 - 00:31:22
Hannah: Exactly like, Ask me how I am and what I'm into and that kind of stuff. We don't need to talk about your ex, but so I went for a second date.
00:31:22 - 00:31:23
Katie: Of course you did. Yeah.
00:31:23 - 00:31:42
Hannah: Even though my intuition was saying this is bad, I was like, Oh, but you know, we could still have a bit of fun. And the second date was exactly the same and lots of love bombing. And then he kind of got weird because he'd found me on Instagram when I was like. Oh, you found me on Instagram. And he was very defensive.
00:31:42 - 00:31:47
Katie: Oh yeah, but it's a public profile that anybody can see and that's fine.
00:31:47 - 00:32:05
Hannah: I know. And he went super defensive about it. Like, you shouldn't, like you don't need to be in the FBI to find someone's Instagram and got kind of cross with me about it. So that was the bit where I was like, okay, you slagged your ex off loads, you've been love bombing me and now you've gone really defensive because I said one thing about you finding my profile.
00:32:05 - 00:32:06
Katie: Yeah. No
00:32:06 - 00:32:12
Hannah: So I was like, This is not going to work. And then he got really cross with me for saying it wasn't going to work.
00:32:12 - 00:32:13
Katie: Fuck you, you fat bitch.
00:32:13 - 00:32:18
Katie: That kind of thing. Yeah. This is all on you. You shouldn't have led me on kind of thing.
00:32:18 - 00:32:20
Katie: Yeah it's really common.
00:32:20 - 00:32:26
Hannah: And I'm like, We've been on. I've known you for one week, one week, and I'm getting this barrage of abuse.
00:32:26 - 00:32:35
Katie: It's because sometimes they don't know what to do with that anger that they feel when they've been rejected. You know, not that that's an excuse at all. It's just why it happens and why you should watch out.
00:32:35 - 00:32:36
Hannah: And he's probably a controlling man.
00:32:36 - 00:32:37
Katie: Well, and that as well.
00:32:37 - 00:32:49
Hannah: He would have been a nightmare to be going out with. So, yeah, that's my red flag story. And and I guess how to be safe on a date is also helpful.
00:32:49 - 00:32:50
Katie: Yeah.
00:32:50 - 00:32:57
Hannah: Because yeah, if you go on a date like that and then accidentally say the wrong thing and they're a nightmare, you need to know that you can get out.
00:32:57 - 00:33:27
Katie: Yeah So, I mean, like, those are the obvious ones. Like you should always tell somebody where you're going. Like, I have a friend who, when she's in a relationship now, but when she was dating, she would always say, I'm going to X place and this is when I'm expected to be back and can you just text me at the end of the night to make sure I'm okay? And I was like really happy to do that little duty as a friend, you know, And I think everybody should have, who is dating, should have that little set up, you know, just a friend that you check in with at the end of the night after they've got back from their date, you know?
00:33:27 - 00:33:37
Hannah: Yeah. Good call. Yeah. I would always text into the small gang and be like, This is where I'm going to be. This is the name of the guy. This is his number. Check back with me.
00:33:37 - 00:33:37
Katie: Yeah.
00:33:39 - 00:33:41
Hannah: That's good. And then there was one you were telling me about for restaurants.
00:33:41 - 00:34:27
Katie: Yeah. So there's a lot of restaurants and pubs do, and some of them have different names, but it's like a scheme that they've got set up called Ask For Angela and you'll see it in the ladies bathrooms of wherever you are. It's basically if you are on a date and you're not feeling comfortable anymore and you don't want to be there anymore, you can go up to the bar and ask the the bar staff for Angela and that's like a code word. They know that you mean 'I'm on a date that I don't want to be on anymore? Can you call me a taxi or get me safely out of the location' and they'll help you with that. So like, you can look up online which venues and restaurants and things do the scheme. And it's not always Angela There's other code names as well.
00:34:27 - 00:34:30
Hannah: Yeah, I'm sure I saw it in a bathroom in York and I was like. Oo, what's this?
00:34:31 - 00:34:48
Katie: Yeah, it's a great idea. I'm really pleased that they do it. It's often in partnership with the local police as well. And so like, if you're like feeling like you want that extra little safety measure, just go to a place that does that sort of scheme. And you know, you can always go to the bar and say, Can I speak to Angela, please? And they'll order you a taxi.
00:34:49 - 00:34:53
Hannah: Yeah. And it's also, you know, people pleasing tendencies kick in here.
00:34:53 - 00:34:53
Katie: Yeah.
00:34:54 - 00:34:59
Hannah: It's also fine to be like. I don't want another drink. I'm going to go home now.
00:34:59 - 00:35:00
Katie: Yes, exactly.
00:35:00 - 00:35:19
Hannah: It's hard, but yeah, I went on one date and this lovely guy had come out and we chatted for ages. He'd quit drinking and stuff like that. So we were talking about being sober and telling me a story and he's like. Oh, so what do you want to do now? Do you want to get another drink? And I was like. Yeah, I'm okay. Thanks. I'm going to go home.
00:35:19 - 00:35:28
Katie: And there's nothing wrong with that. I think often, if you're really not feeling it, there would probably prefer that you did it at that stage, you know, rather than sit out the rest of the date.
00:35:28 - 00:35:32
Hannah: And I did feel so guilty. And when he was leaving, he was like. Oh
00:35:33 - 00:35:35
Katie: But you don't need to feel guilty. It's just part of it.
00:35:35 - 00:35:44
Hannah: It is, It is. And he texted me later on saying, Oh, you know, I had a really lovely time. I got the feeling that you didn't like me as much in person. And I was like, No, I didn't. Sorry.
00:35:45 - 00:35:46
Katie: Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that.
00:35:46 - 00:35:55
Hannah: It was lovely to meet you. And I gave him, you know, compliments and the shit sandwich and all that kind of stuff, but. So. Yeah. Well, thanks, Katie.
00:35:55 - 00:35:55
Katie: Yeah, thank you Hannah.
00:35:56 - 00:36:02
Hannah: I think that's been interesting because obviously it's changed a lot since I was last single.
00:36:02 - 00:36:03
Katie: Yeah.
00:36:04 - 00:36:14
Hannah: So anybody who's just maybe becoming single at the moment, they might be like, wondering what the hell to do next. But there is definitely. There's fun to be had.
00:36:14 - 00:36:23
Katie: There is definitely fun to be had. We'd love to hear your stories as well. If you've got any stories about dates you've been on or your experience of dating apps and please do get in touch.
00:36:23 - 00:36:29
Hannah: Oh my God, I've heard some great ones. We have to share some more. Yes, please do send them through. Right. Thanks, love.
00:36:29 - 00:36:31
Katie: Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.
00:36:33 - 00:36:56
Hannah: Thank you so much for listening. And I'll see you next time for another episode of Happily Ever After with me, Hannah Harvey. It would be wonderful if you could leave a review and subscribe. And of course, if you've got a friend who might enjoy this episode, then please do pass it on for anything else. You can get in touch with me through either Instagram @Mumsdays or through my website MumsDays.com
