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Hannah: Welcome to Happily Ever After the podcast where we talk about life's big stories, from great sex to sexual trauma. Break-ups and breakdowns. Icky secrets and happy endings. It's the stuff that makes us human. And boy, do we cover it all. I'm your host, Hannah Harvey. I'm a writer and a parenting blogger at Mums' Days dot com. That's M.U.M.S.D.A.Y.S .com. I would be very grateful if you could subscribe and leave a review because it means more people can find the podcast. And I also really, really, really love hearing from you, so please contact me through Instagram @Mumsdays with all your stories of life and any thoughts you might have on the episode or even questions you want answering. You can find all the details from this episode in the show notes.
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Hannah: Hello and welcome to Happily Ever After with me, Hannah. And today I'm joined with Katie.
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Hannah: I bet you're wondering why you're here, aren't you?
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Katie: A little bit.
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Hannah: Hee hee hee
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Hannah: Hee hee. So I've been away and I haven't seen Katie for ages, and I've got, like, a whole bunch of things I want to talk to you about.
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Katie: Lovely. Will be nice to have a catch up.
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Hannah: So we're just having a catch up, basically. Um, okay. The first thing on my mind. So I've come back from a holiday, and I'm like. I need to get on with the rest of my life. And one of the big things is I need to buy a house.
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Katie: Right. That's a biggie.
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Hannah: I'm really putting it off.
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Katie: Yeah. Why? What's in your way?
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Hannah: Uh, it feels really grown up, and I don't actually know what I'm really looking for.
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Hannah: Like, do you have it in your head? An idea of your. Like what your dream house would be, but also what you'd be happy with. Do you have those two things? Are they clear to you?
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Katie: No, definitely not. Do you have that?
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Hannah: No, that's. I was like, I wanted to check with you. I'm like, Is it weird that I'm not sure what I'm looking for?
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Katie: No, because I think if you go in with expectations like that, then you're never going to find the dream home and what you're happy with.
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Hannah: Right. So coming at this from the point of view of manifesting.
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Hannah: Which I have talked about before, and I try not to talk about it because it's a bit. Like everybody's talking about it.
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Hannah: And. I'm not that religious with it anymore. Like, definitely in the past you used to do it a lot as like probably even just a coping mechanism. But I do. I have found that when I'm clear about what I want, it comes to me much easier.
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Hannah: So like this house I'm currently in, at the time I was really into manifesting. I was like, Right, I want to live in this particular place right by the sea. Um, and it needs to be this size, like three bedrooms, whatever. And I literally emailed every estate agent going saying, This is what I'm looking for. I just want to rent. The next day. Like, they were all like, ha ha, you'll be lucky the next day. Literally. I met a friend for a coffee and she went, Oh, my house that I'm literally sitting in now is is now available. It was well within my budget. It was exactly what we needed and I was a bit like, Oh, but it's not, it's not where I wanted. The universe has got it wrong.
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Hannah: But actually this is exactly where I need it to be. Yeah.
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Katie: I think there's an element of that as well. Like I've just letting it happen, you know, like letting the place that you end up be the place that you are meant to be in. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
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Hannah: I guess I'm scared to start because my budget is going to be small.
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Hannah: And in my head I'm like, Right. So obviously you've seen what my old house used to look like. Big house on the hill. We made it look beautiful. It was finished the day that it went on the market and I never got to fully enjoy it. But equally I'm like, Oh, I don't think that was my dream anyway.
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Hannah: And I envisage myself in like just a quirky little maisonette, maybe above a shop, like a nice shop, not like
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Katie: Fish and Chips.
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Hannah: Fish and chips shop or I'm thinking like a what's it called? An off licence. Oh yeah. A place that's going to be open on. I don't want that. I want to be above Bellwoods.
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Katie: Hannah's house, above the offie. Stopping for a 6 pack on the way up. Pack of tab
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Hannah: And it's so quirky. Yeah, I know. So that's what I think want. But you know, when you're like, I'm so stuck in, is it because I'm rebelling against everything else and I'm trying to. I don't know. Be the exact opposite. Or is it genuinely that I'm like, Yeah, Like I feel like I don't need a garden.
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Hannah: I want to have a small as place as possible so that we can keep the bills to the minimum because I just want to travel. Yeah. And explore and do fun things with my kids that way. But then I'm also like, oh, like Ruben's new bedroom in his dad's house is like this lovely, massive place.
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Katie: Yeah, but let him have that at his dad's like, it doesn't. It's like you said, if he's going on loads of amazing trips and things with you, then he's not going to care about what his bedroom is like anyway.
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Hannah: Do you think?
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Katie: Yeah. Plus, like, for me, I had two bedrooms when I was a kid and I had one that was my bedroom and one that was a room that I stayed in and I didn't feel like a there was no particular place that I wanted to be in more, but there was one where I kept all my stuff, and that didn't mean that I liked one parent or one house more than the other, you know, It was just like one was my bedroom and one was where. Like actually the one at my dad's, which was the one that I just went and stayed in, was like really nice because it had just my nice things and my like pink dressing gown was there and like just a few cuddly toys and not loads of mess everywhere, you know? So it was nice having those two things when I was a kid. It didn't mean that one of them was any less than the other one. You just I think you tend to have one place anyway, even if you do have two bedrooms.
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Hannah: Yes, I see what you mean. I guess the difference for my kids is that they are literally 50/50 between me and their dad. Um, but I think as long as it's a happy home that's filled with love, it really doesn't matter.
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Katie: I agree. I totally agree.
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Hannah: And I think Cath will help me get rid of some of my clutter because I'm like, If I downsize, that's going to be tricky.
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Hannah: Because I've got a lot of stuff in it.
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Katie: Do you not think you might be putting it off because once you get the ball rolling you've then got to move house and that's a huge thing.
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Hannah: Yeah, there is that too, isn't there?
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Katie: If it was me, I'd be putting it off. Especially like if you're happy with where you are, you know, it's hard to then go, okay, got to start this journey on finding somewhere that's potentially going to be smaller and require a lot of effort to get into.
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Hannah: And I want to be there for like as long as humanly possible.
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Hannah: Like I want this to be the place where we put down roots. And so I suppose when you put it like that, it's a bit of a fucking big deal.
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Katie: It is a big thing. It's a really big thing. They say that it's like one of the most stressful things you can go through along with bereavement and divorce. So there you go. Maybe it was you that told me that.
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Hannah: I probably did. I think it was on the last podcast. I'm glad you listen.
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Katie: Yeah I do
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Hannah: haha. Katie listens because she does all the editing
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Katie: I do. I listen to the podcast a lot. A lot of times.
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Hannah: A lot. A lot of times. and she does a lovely job.
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Katie: Yeah. Thanks.
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Hannah: So. Right. I think this actually leads into my next thing. So I was going to tell you about like, sorry to be this person.
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Katie: Oh no, What's coming?
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Hannah: You know, when someone's like, I had this crazy dream and then it goes on for a hundred years and you're. Like, Fuck me. This is the most boring thing. I'm going to do this to you.
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Katie: On a podcast as well. So everybody else has to listen,
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Hannah: You are welcome. But I think this is important because it kind of ties in with the becoming a grown up. And the other thing about this is I've had this conversation with Natalie, my yoga lovely yoga lady who's refusing to come on the podcast.
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Katie: Well, I suppose people, I don't, but people might find it a bit daunting, mightn't they?
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Hannah: I mean.
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Katie: But don't worry, you've got nothing to worry about. Just come on.
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Hannah: Come on. We're sitting on my sofa having a chat. But my point is partly of telling you this is because I want to tell you how insightful Natalie is so that we can all start, you know, like a thing to get her on like she is.
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Katie: I'd really like her to do an episode. I would really like you to do an episode Natalie.
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Hannah: She's so smart and. So, like, just so at the moment, she's really interested in Jungian theory. So she's like, Yesterday I saw her and she was like, So tell me about your dreams.
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Katie: I see. Yeah.
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Hannah: And I'm like, Love it. So the theory is that when you have a dream, every single person within the dream represents an element of yourself.
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Katie: Ooh, interesting.
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Hannah: Right?! So the first part of the dream that I told her about, which is why I woke up when I was away at the retreat, was that I dreamt that I was on the side of the mountain. You know, that massive rock that we climbed, looked up, and someone accidentally went too far over the edge and started falling. Then somebody else went to grab them and then they fell too.
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Hannah: So I saw them both fall. And then I woke up and I was like, Well, I'm not sleeping again for a while.
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Katie: Oh, yeah, that's horrible.
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Hannah: So Natalie was saying, Well, who were the two people? What bit of you is that?
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Katie: Were there people you knew?
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Hannah: They weren't people I knew. But she's saying that whoever they. Was there an element of yourself?
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Hannah: So you've obviously felt like you've. Fallen. And then another part of yourself is tried to catch that bit of you and then also fallen.
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Katie: But then I wonder if there's something in what they look like as well. Who are they? What were they like? Did they have anything about them? Like
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Hannah: I felt like they were. Maybe I couldn't even tell you what gender they were.
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Hannah: Like I think possibly like a man and then an older woman, maybe, but I can't quite remember. And so that was the first bit. So I was like, I'm not totally sure what that's about, but interesting. And then the next bit, when I finally got back to sleep, like four hours later, I had about an hour of sleep. And then Josie's like do you want a coffee. Yeah, obviously.
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Hannah: But. But I was in the middle of a dream there where this is the nice bit. I was sat with Madonna.
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Katie: Oh, amazing.
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Hannah: As in the Madonna. The singer, not the mother of Jesus.
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Hannah: And although, you know, similar vibes.
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Hannah: Not really.
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Hannah: In this thing it was it was like I was cuddled into her, like sat like this with her. And she had her arm around me and she was going. I'm going to take you on a holiday.
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Katie: Oh right. Where were you going with Madonna then? Or
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Hannah: It was irrelevant. It was the feeling of her being like, I'm just going to look after you and I'm going to buy you things and take you on holiday. And I was like. Thanks, Madonna. Like it was such a huge weight lifted.
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Katie: I bet it is symbolic that she's Madonna, though.
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Hannah: Well, Natalie's thought on this was that that's a bit of yourself. You're getting to the point where you can actually start looking after your little self and be like, I've got this.
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Katie: Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah.
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Hannah: Isn't that exciting?!
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Katie: Because Madonna is the mother, isn't she? You know?
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Hannah: She's the mother. But yeah, so it could have been the mother of God because she had that vibe. But it was the Madonna.
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Hannah: So maybe we should get that Madonna on on the podcast?
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Katie: Absolutely. I think so. Yeah, I would like that a lot. And she. She she was very big in the 80 seconds, wasn't she. Which was when you were born, right?
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Hannah: Yeah. But I think she was more like Madonna now.
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Katie: She was Madonna now, hmm interesting.
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Hannah: But either way, I think the, the crux of the matter was I had this tumble and a fall where I tried to save myself, but. You know, over the course of the evening, I then became the mothering figure for myself. And I can look after myself and I can do this stuff and I can pay for my fucking holidays. I don't need anybody else.
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Katie: No, you don't. Oh I like that.
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Hannah: It's nice, isn't it? But it's Natalie who helped me come to the conclusion. Which is why she needs to be here for everybody else.
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Katie: I find that stuff so interesting. They say that, like, you can put away all sorts of anxieties and things as well when you dream about them. Like it's how your brain processes things that have been going through your head during the day. And so if you like, I've always wanted to keep a dream journal but never been good enough to actually do it.
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Hannah: Not good enough?! Disciplined enough. You are definitely good enough.
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Katie: I can't get a haircut or buy bras. Like dream journal's just not going to happen, you know?
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Hannah: That's the kind of thing I would do. Like. By the way, I've been so productive this week, but I'm still failing because I've had to share my toilet roll between downstairs and upstairs. I keep forgetting to buy toilet roll. It's the life stuff, isn't it, that goes down the bottom of the list. So anyway, that's that's the Madonna stuff. So if I can keep channelling that energy, I'll be fine when buying my house, which is why I sort of connect the two together.
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Katie: Absolutely. Yeah. And I don't think you should be sort of down on yourself for hesitating on that because it makes sense.
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Hannah: Yeah, but maybe just the next step is like, just walk through the door of a estate agent.
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Hannah: Because confidence grows from action.
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Katie: Yeah. And it could all happen really quickly. Or it might take ages, but you're in control of that, so it can happen as quickly or as slowly as you want it to.
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Hannah: Yeah. I think once I get started, I mean, you know me, I'll be all in. All in. All, I'll talk to you. The next podcast will be just about buying houses. I've become the expert.
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Katie: You might. You might. And that'll be great.
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Hannah: And it'll be my new job. Like I will have become the new salesman. Like, that's. That's where we're going with this. That's probably why I'm nervous.
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Katie: Yeah, because
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Hannah: I'm not ready for a new career.
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Katie: Yeah, because it's all encompassing for you. And I understand that. I get it. Yeah.
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Hannah: Uh. The other thing I was going to tell you about. Where are we at? Okay, so coming back from the retreats, I had a big realisation around who I actually am. So I talked about when I was on the retreat, I did the podcast about how I was feeling post-divorce and to finally get that sheet of paper which drew the line under it and I assumed I'd be like meh, it's just a piece of paper. But actually it was hugely symbolic. Yeah. And I felt like the next month was kind of regressing, like old fears had come up like that whole thing. Like, I literally had a panic attack that I was going to be attacked by a dog.
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Hannah: And I'm like. You know, I was bitten by a dog when I was a kid and I was about 14. I used to help the milkman and I went to knock on someone's door and this Alsatian came round the corner and bit me and it was terrifying. So after a while, I, you know, after that happened, I was a bit like cagey around dogs and stuff. But
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Katie: I'm not surprised.
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Hannah: I'd forgotten all about it. And then I'm walking up a hill in Spain and I'm like. Fuck. I'm about to be bitten by a dog. And I had this fear that the kids were with me. It was quite like a lucid dream almost, and that was going to have to try and protect them somehow.
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Katie: Oh, that's interesting.
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Hannah: It was horrible. I'm like, So all that kind of stuff is was being processed. And then I dream about the Madonna and somehow I seem to come out the other side. But when I come back, I was like, I am definitely an extrovert.
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Katie: Yeah, yeah.
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Hannah: But I think there's different levels. Like we were talking about this earlier, whether it's like I need to be around people to almost keep me sane and steady.
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Hannah: Because if I'm on my own too long, I go way too, like, overthinking everything and worrying. So just the act of being like, I need to be alone, but I need to be around people when I'm doing it. So going to sit in a coffee shop?
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Katie: Yeah. And I guess learning that sort of thing can be really eye opening as well and allow yourself to do stuff more that suits you better. Like I only recently learned that I'm more of an introvert.
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Hannah: Do you think you are? I was gonna ask you.
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Katie: Definitely. Because, like, I've always assumed that I was an extrovert because I'm quite like, I like people and I get along with them quite easily and like, I can be quite chatty. And
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Katie: I thought all of those things are what makes you an extrovert. But somebody once explained it to me as like - an introvert's somebody who recharges their batteries in private by themselves and an extrovert, somebody who recharges their batteries by being around others. And I'm definitely the former, you know, I definitely need alone time in order to, like, come back to who I am, you know? And whereas some people and I can't even now that I think about it, I'm like, I can't even imagine this recharging my batteries, like being with other people, Like, that's it exhausts me for some reason. But I guess that's just the difference between the two, isn't it?
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Hannah: Yeah, like it definitely exhausts me if there's a big group. Yeah, like being on the retreat was interesting from that point of view because I'm like, I really valued more than anything this the interactions one on one.
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Hannah: Like that fully. I just love it. Getting to know someone, I'm like, Tell me all your secrets now. And we'll, you know...
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Katie: Yeah, I like that as well.
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Hannah: ..go through your dreams and all that kind of stuff. Let's try and work out who we are together. Like, I love all that and. But the bigger groups, I find that. I think. Especially now. I don't drink.
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Hannah: Like I would have been the loud dickhead at the end of the table wanting everybody's attention, whereas now I'm like, Oh, I think I'm done with this.
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Hannah: But I'd be happy sitting on a table on my own and still being.
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Katie: Being surrounded by people. Yeah, I think it is different though, like, so I think it's still being extroverted, if you like, to be around people whether that's interacting with them or not, you know?
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Katie: Whereas I would much rather sit in a room by myself.
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Hannah: See, I can definitely do it. You know, I can be quiet. I can do yoga on my own. But I've just realised that if I do it for too long I get very sad, very quick.
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Katie: Yeah, that's interesting because I definitely feel better after periods alone.
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Hannah: Do you think maybe there's something in it? I don't know. Maybe not for everybody. But I think if you have self-worth issues, for example, that you're like, I need to not be myself as much, so I'm going to be the opposite.
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Hannah: Because to me, I'm like, Oh, it's so cool to be an introvert. I wish I was an introvert.
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Katie: Do you think?
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Hannah: Yeah, like you can just sit at home and like read books and be so relaxed in your own company. And I'm like.
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Katie: No, I know, but I would much prefer to and this is just like, you always want the thing that you don't have. But I would much prefer to be the kind of person who could be with people or surrounded by people all the time and just not be. For me like it really takes it out of me. And so I can't do too much of it. Otherwise I get exhausted. And I would love to just be able to see people all the time and be like.
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Hannah: I couldn't interact with people all the time. Yeah, like being somewhere surrounded by life bustling around me, that recharges my batteries. Sitting with people who I have to interact with all the time is tiring. Yeah, like it's lovely for, you know, for a couple of hours, for three hours or whatever. But after a while you're like, okay, I'm going to go sit over there.
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Katie: Yeah, I know.
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Hannah: Not because I don't like them. It's just because you get tired, don't you? I've run out of crack. That kind of thing.
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Katie: Yeah. But like, for me, even one on one or like so. I think it's like to do with whether you like to be around noise and things or not. Like for me, the second that. I work in a shop and so the second the shop closes, if there's any jobs that I've got to do and things, I turn the music off immediately. And I don't often listen to things just in the background. Like I never have anything on in the background because I think I quite like things to be quiet.
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Hannah: Yeah, that's the same for me. I noticed when I first started seeing the art teacher, I was like, Wow, he's always got music on. Yeah. Whereas I never have music on unless I'm in the car or walking. Like I would never be like, Oh, where's my speaker? I have got one. And I do occasionally put it on, but it tends to be if he's here.
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Katie: Yeah, yeah. And, but like, so if I was sat in a coffee shop like not necessarily interacting with people but being around them, I would find the noise too much. Like I would feel really relieved when I wouldn't necessarily realise it at the time actually. But when I walked out of the coffee shop, I'd feel really relieved that I was away from the noise and the people. So I guess that's kind of the difference. It's an interesting one. It's really not what I used to think it was.
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Hannah: I'm still working it out.
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Katie: Yeah same. I think I am as well.
00:21:13 - 00:21:23
Hannah: But yeah, I certainly find that. I think it's just helpful to know, isn't it? Like if you feel yourself going. Into a shitty mood.
00:21:23 - 00:21:24
00:21:24 - 00:21:39
Hannah: Being like, Oh, I'm going to go and. Go sit in the coffee shop down the road just to, like, get their energy. I don't really want I don't mind chatting to people, but it's fine if I'm just sat on my own, which is another thing that I would never have done if I wasn't sober.
00:21:40 - 00:21:41
00:21:41 - 00:21:48
Hannah: I think in the past I would have been like, I can't sit on a like anywhere on my own. That's like, what's sad losers do.
00:21:49 - 00:21:51
Katie: Yeah. Oh that's never bothered me.
00:21:52 - 00:21:56
Hannah: Has it not? I've always really worried about how that would look.
00:21:56 - 00:21:57
Katie: Oh, no.
00:21:57 - 00:22:09
Hannah: And I wouldn't have had the confidence. And maybe as well, I would have been like instead of feeling like, Oh, I'm feeling that void, I'm going to go sit and recharge my batteries in a coffee shop. I would have gone, who can I find to drink with?
00:22:09 - 00:22:16
Katie: Yeah exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And you'd make plans with somebody, whereas now you know that you don't need the plans to recharge. You can just be around people.
00:22:16 - 00:22:19
Hannah: Yeah, but I didn't know that until like, last week.
00:22:19 - 00:22:32
Katie: Yeah. I know. I think I'm still figuring it out as well because sometimes it's better for me if I go out and do things like sometimes I don't want to do it, and then I find when I have gone and done it, I feel better afterwards.
00:22:33 - 00:22:41
Hannah: I think especially if you are introverted and you're like, Oh, I really should go to yoga and there's going to be people there or whatever, That's quite a big ask.
00:22:41 - 00:22:42
00:22:42 - 00:22:43
Hannah: Whereas I'm like. I need to get there.
00:22:43 - 00:22:50
Katie: Yeah, yeah. Like I would actively avoid stuff like that, but then feel better once I've done them.
00:22:50 - 00:22:50
00:22:50 - 00:22:55
Katie: So there must be an element of that that is good for me as well. I think it must be.
00:22:55 - 00:22:57
Hannah: I think you do have to push yourself to do things.
00:22:57 - 00:23:04
Katie: Yeah. And it must be a scale for everybody. Like I think nobody's completely solitary or needs to be in company all the time, are they? So
00:23:04 - 00:23:11
Hannah: Yeah. Like it's lovely to be on your own for a bit, but for me, I'm like going to keep an eye on that one.
00:23:11 - 00:23:11
00:23:11 - 00:23:20
Hannah: Because I've always been like, you should be able to. Be on your own. Like almost trying to prove to myself that I can do it.
00:23:20 - 00:23:39
Katie: Yeah, I know. Which is actually just fighting against what's natural to you. Yeah. Yeah. I used to feel like I had to go out and do things because that was who I was. Like, I'm a sociable person and so I need to go out and make plans and do stuff with people all the time because that's what I'm good at and that's who I am.
00:23:39 - 00:23:47
Hannah: And if you think about like your career in London and everything, it was all about being out the social life, the gigs, the music.
00:23:47 - 00:23:51
Katie: And I don't think I think actually I needed to just give myself a little bit of time by myself.
00:23:51 - 00:23:52
Hannah: You should have been like, I'll organise it for you.
00:23:52 - 00:23:53
00:23:53 - 00:23:54
Hannah: But I'm going to go home tonight.
00:23:54 - 00:24:00
Katie: Yeah. That's when I thrive, actually, when I organise stuff for other people that I don't actually have to go to.
00:24:00 - 00:24:01
00:24:01 - 00:24:01
Katie: I love it.
00:24:01 - 00:24:06
Hannah: Yeah, just do that. Just do that and don't feel guilty.
00:24:06 - 00:24:11
Katie: I know. Yeah. So it's letting yourself off for being an introvert or extrovert, isn't it?
00:24:11 - 00:24:25
Hannah: Yeah. Definitely. Okay. So that was the other thing I wanted to cover and then I wanted to talk to you about, um. Well, I had an interesting chat with my Dad.
00:24:25 - 00:24:28
Katie: Oo right. Okay. I'm fascinated by your Dad.
00:24:28 - 00:24:36
Hannah: Oh, he's so interesting. So I took him out for lunch yesterday because it was his birthday back in April, but I was in Madrid.
00:24:36 - 00:24:36
00:24:36 - 00:24:45
Hannah: So I was like, I'll take you out for lunch when know when everything's settled and got back. So he was telling me all about his trip because he'd just been away for three weeks in Israel.
00:24:45 - 00:24:45
Katie: Oh, right.
00:24:45 - 00:25:11
Hannah: So I was hearing all about that and it was totally fascinating. Like, for example, this is an aside to what I was going to tell you. Bethlehem was on one time zone and Jerusalem was on another time zone, and they're literally next to each other. So he was like an hour behind. So Jerusalem, I think, if this is the right way around, had moved ahead just like we have for the British summer time.
00:25:11 - 00:25:11
Katie: Oh right.
00:25:11 - 00:25:14
Hannah: So it moved an hour ahead and Bethlehem had not.
00:25:14 - 00:25:14
Katie: How weird
00:25:14 - 00:25:26
Hannah: So he was organising meetings with people and getting completely confused about whether he was going forwards or backwards and knowing what time anything was. And he was just like, So I had to be super like agile and just problem solve all the time.
00:25:27 - 00:25:27
00:25:27 - 00:25:29
Hannah: I was like, That's weird. But anyway,
00:25:29 - 00:25:31
Katie: I don't know anything about that part of the world.
00:25:31 - 00:25:41
Hannah: He had a great time. If you ever want a tour guide, that's very like based on the history of Christianity in the area. He's your man.
00:25:41 - 00:25:47
Hannah: We should maybe mention again that Hannah's Dad's a vicar, which is probably why he was there doing that stuff.
00:25:47 - 00:25:57
Hannah: Well, what he actually does now is he is in charge of a theological college, which teaches, you know, it's an academic course that teaches people to be vicars.
00:25:57 - 00:25:57
Katie: Oh, cool.
00:25:57 - 00:26:05
Hannah: So he's hugely academic. And, you know, he speaks like ancient Greek and teaches that and that kind of stuff so.
00:26:05 - 00:26:11
Katie: Yeah, I find that stuff all fascinating, actually. And I'm not I'm not religious myself. I just think it's interesting.
00:26:11 - 00:26:18
Hannah: Yeah, same. Like I can have an intellectual conversation about it without it being like. Why don't you believe?
00:26:18 - 00:26:19
00:26:19 - 00:26:26
Hannah: Which is nice. So, yes, the thing that he did bring up was that he was concerned about my relationship.
00:26:26 - 00:26:31
Katie: Oh, no. Why is he concerned about your relationship? Has he been listening to the podcast?
00:26:34 - 00:26:37
Hannah: He was like, he gets all his information from my mum who does listen.
00:26:37 - 00:26:37
Katie: Right. Yeah.
00:26:38 - 00:26:41
Hannah: And apparently, my mom was like, It's just a bit of fun.
00:26:42 - 00:26:43
Katie: Right. Yeah.
00:26:43 - 00:26:48
Hannah: So. And he's worried that I'm, like, going to get hurt.
00:26:48 - 00:26:49
00:26:49 - 00:27:02
Hannah: And I was like, but that's the case with every relationship you go into. There is a risk of getting hurt. And so, yeah, he ended up saying it was a bit like a penny farthing.
00:27:02 - 00:27:03
Katie: Right. Okay.
00:27:03 - 00:27:14
Hannah: So basically most of my life is this big. The big wheel. And this is the bit that I liked. And then he was like in the little wheel bit.
00:27:14 - 00:27:15
Katie: He was in the little wheel.
00:27:17 - 00:27:18
Hannah: The art teacher.
00:27:18 - 00:27:19
Katie: Oh, right. Okay.
00:27:19 - 00:27:35
Hannah: Yeah. The art teacher was in that, like, little wheel. So most of my life happens over here, and I'm like a mum, and I've got work to do and all that kind of stuff. And then at the weekend, I don't have my kids and I see the art teacher when I can because, you know, he's currently busy a lot.
00:27:35 - 00:27:35
00:27:36 - 00:27:39
Hannah: And but I was like, What's wrong with that?
00:27:39 - 00:27:40
Katie: No, I don't think there's any problem with it.
00:27:41 - 00:27:50
Hannah: Well, Penny Farthing's canny difficult to ride. And I'm like, Yeah, but they'd be even harder if you didn't have the bean. If you didn't have the little wheel. Then you're just on a massive unicycle.
00:27:52 - 00:27:53
Katie: Yeah, that's true.
00:27:54 - 00:27:59
Hannah: And he was like but I want him to be more involved in the rest of your life. And I was like, But I don't want him to be.
00:27:59 - 00:28:17
Katie: I know. I guess you've got to try and work out how much of that is like, um, wise person giving you life advice and how much of it is sort of like, um, like not as up to date views necessarily. Maybe from a male perspective, you know?
00:28:17 - 00:28:18
Hannah: Yeah, maybe.
00:28:18 - 00:28:24
Katie: Um, because that's the kind of thing Dads worry about, isn't it? Like daughter getting a heartbroken.
00:28:24 - 00:28:37
Hannah: Yeah. And it's like, well, even if I do, this is another Natalie-ism. So whenever I'm about to make interesting choices, she'll be like, Well, whatever happens, we'll get through it.
00:28:37 - 00:28:39
Katie: Yeah, I agree with that.
00:28:39 - 00:28:42
Hannah: You get. You get hurt. You've been hurt before. We'll get through it.
00:28:42 - 00:28:43
00:28:44 - 00:28:55
Hannah: Go and make the mistake if you need to. It's obvious that you still have lessons to learn. So if you're going to go make an old mistake, in my view, um, you'll get over it, and it'll be okay.
00:28:55 - 00:29:13
Katie: Yeah. And I think that's right. Like, I really look up to my parents, and I think you do as well. And so when they say something like that, it can be quite like challenging because you're like, Oh, no, I have to change everything that I'm doing now because my parents say so.
00:29:13 - 00:29:14
Hannah: Or get defensive.
00:29:14 - 00:29:30
Katie: Yeah. Or get defensive because you take it seriously what they say, you know, and it's got to be considered. So I think that's natural to go oh like you know is is what he says got any weight to it. But also you've made this decision yourself and you're a grown up.
00:29:30 - 00:29:41
Hannah: But you know, what I really enjoyed about it was the fact that I was it didn't get heated at all and I was able to go, this is what I want at the moment. And at some point, maybe the little wheel will get bigger.
00:29:41 - 00:29:42
00:29:42 - 00:30:00
Hannah: And the big wheel will get littler and it'll be like a bike, like, I don't know where it's going or what the future holds, but none of us do. He could be making all the promises in the world and it still go wrong. He could also be putting lots of pressure on me to be like, Why haven't you introduced me to your kids?
00:30:00 - 00:30:01
00:30:01 - 00:30:06
Katie: Like, what does it mean? What does that. What are you trying to tell me? Am I not important to you?
00:30:06 - 00:30:10
Katie: Definitely. And there's loads of people who would be doing that. There's loads of people who would.
00:30:10 - 00:30:17
Hannah: Because he's mentioned it, that his friends are a bit like, Why have you not met her kids? And I'm like, Yeah, my kids have got shit loads going on in their lives.
00:30:17 - 00:30:26
Katie: Yeah. I also think you need to be like really invested in somebody to take it to that level. Otherwise, like, it can have a knock on effect on the kids like.
00:30:26 - 00:30:43
Hannah: They're about to. They're both moving schools in September. Their dad's just moved house. I'm about to move well, not about to move house. We all know where that's going. At some point soon. They know we are moving. Like there's a lot going on in the next year that I just want them to feel settled.
00:30:43 - 00:30:43
00:30:43 - 00:30:49
Hannah: Like I'm justifying it to the world again, but it's more that I'm thinking out loud and making sure that it's right.
00:30:49 - 00:30:49
00:30:50 - 00:30:53
Hannah: Because also he probably doesn't want to meet my kids anyway.
00:30:53 - 00:30:54
00:30:54 - 00:30:57
Hannah: And then that's a different conversation. Yeah.
00:30:57 - 00:31:15
Katie: And yeah, I also just think like if you're happy with this, like, I'm sure that the reason for a lot of people to introduce their kids to their new partner is because they want you to all be part of the same happy family that's going to be together for the rest of your lives. And that's the way that you want to live as a family unit, which is just not where you're at, is it? so
00:31:15 - 00:31:17
Hannah: I am Madonna.
00:31:17 - 00:31:18
Katie: You are Madonna.
00:31:18 - 00:31:25
Hannah: I am looking after myself and my little island. So I think that's probably a nice way to end.
00:31:25 - 00:31:27
00:31:27 - 00:31:38
Hannah: That's not what I'm after right now. So. And we don't need it. And I think a lot of relationships can start quickly after heartbreak because you just feel so fucking insecure.
00:31:39 - 00:31:39
Katie: Yeah, definitely.
00:31:39 - 00:31:48
Hannah: Like, please tell me I'm pretty and smart going back to dating online things and and not feeling alone because it's not fun.
00:31:48 - 00:31:49
00:31:49 - 00:32:01
Hannah: But we are capable and we can do these things on our own. And it's nice getting the. I don't know, like the odd little thing where you're like, Oh, I've just bought a house.
00:32:01 - 00:32:03
Katie: Yeah. And it's just you and you've done it.
00:32:03 - 00:32:07
Hannah: I've actually done that as an actual grown up at the age of 40.
00:32:07 - 00:32:12
Katie: Yeah. No, but like. And you don't need anybody else to do that with you, you know.
00:32:12 - 00:32:12
00:32:12 - 00:32:13
Katie: You do that by yourself.
00:32:13 - 00:32:21
Hannah: But maybe that's the final piece of the jigsaw for me is to be like, have the confidence just to crack on and do that. But will you come and like, look around the houses with me?
00:32:21 - 00:32:30
Katie: Of course I will. I would absolutely love to, love that stuff. Yes. I'm in. Yeah.
00:32:30 - 00:32:38
Hannah: Let me just check. If there's anything else. Oh. I'll leave you with a little story from today.
00:32:39 - 00:32:39
00:32:40 - 00:32:48
Hannah: I did something really bad this morning, Katie. What was it? It was literally the worst thing you can do as a mother to your child.
00:32:48 - 00:32:50
Katie: Oh, god. What was it?
00:32:51 - 00:32:52
Hannah: I forgot non-uniform day.
00:32:53 - 00:32:57
Katie: Oh, God. Oh, no.
00:32:58 - 00:33:03
Hannah: Oh, his little face. When we pulled up, we were both like, Oh, my God.
00:33:03 - 00:33:05
Katie: What did you do?
00:33:05 - 00:33:20
Hannah: That is literally the thing that makes me feel. I think it's. There's something about seeing your kid mortified. That is worse than anything that could ever happen to you. I felt so bad. Thank the baby Jesus.
00:33:20 - 00:33:21
Katie: All right.
00:33:21 - 00:33:36
Hannah: I was like, I'm going to fix this. I don't know how I'm going to go see what's in the boot. I open the boot and it was full of bags of charity clothes to go to the charity shop that I've been driving around with for so long, I'd forgotten they were there.
00:33:38 - 00:33:41
Katie: That's destiny, I think.
00:33:41 - 00:33:42
Hannah: Thank you, Universe.
00:33:42 - 00:33:48
Katie: Yeah. Oh, dear. Yeah. So he put something on in the end from the boot.
00:33:48 - 00:33:50
Hannah: I mean, it didn't look great. If you go.
00:33:50 - 00:33:54
Katie: That's better than having school clothes on, though, on non-uniform day, isn't it?
00:33:54 - 00:34:05
Hannah: Oh, it is. Like he was happy as Larry putting on a pair of holy joggings. Joggings? Holy joggers that came up like, well, up his shin.
00:34:05 - 00:34:08
Katie: Yeah. It's better than school uniform, though on non uniform.
00:34:08 - 00:34:24
Hannah: Hideous blue socks with his school shoes. Oh, I managed because it was red, white and blue for the coronation. He was wearing a white like polo shirt, so I was like, You'll have to keep that on. And then I found a red shirt in a bag. Boom.
00:34:24 - 00:34:28
Katie: Yeah. Well done. I can't believe you turned that one round.
00:34:28 - 00:34:39
Hannah: Me neither. I feel like that was some good karma. I must have done something good at some point. That was like, We're going to make sure we're going to. We've got your back for when you fuck up and forget non-uniform day.
00:34:40 - 00:34:44
Katie: It's some charity shop clothes in the boot. Yeah. Oh, dear.
00:34:44 - 00:34:45
Hannah: So there you go.
00:34:45 - 00:34:49
Katie: Yeah, I can't. I can't think of anything worse than that.
00:34:50 - 00:34:52
Hannah: I know you've been that child, right?
00:34:52 - 00:34:55
Katie: Well, I don't even know whether I did. I just like.
00:34:55 - 00:34:57
Hannah: But you can imagine how awful it would be if you did come to school.
00:34:57 - 00:35:03
Katie: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Worst thing in the world. But you recovered it.
00:35:03 - 00:35:03
00:35:03 - 00:35:04
Katie: Well done.
00:35:04 - 00:35:11
Hannah: Thank you. I'm now going to go buy some toilet. Toilet roll. Yeah. And then I feel like I've had a really successful week.
00:35:11 - 00:35:12
Katie: Maybe I'll start a dream journal.
00:35:14 - 00:35:16
Hannah: We'll catch up on that one next month.
00:35:16 - 00:35:18
Katie: Yes. Lovely. When I won't have done it. Yes.
00:35:20 - 00:35:27
Hannah: Oh, thanks, Katie. Have a lovely weekend. Sorry for dragging you out. And. Yeah, Katie's also not feeling her best this week.
00:35:27 - 00:35:28
Katie: Oh, I'm all right.
00:35:28 - 00:35:32
Hannah: And I was like, I still need you to come on the podcast. Can you suck it up?
00:35:32 - 00:35:33
Katie: Yeah, we did a good one. I think we're okay.
00:35:33 - 00:35:36
Hannah: Yeah, we're all right. Well, thanks, Bab.
00:35:36 - 00:35:37
Katie: Bye, everybody.
00:35:37 - 00:35:37
00:35:41 - 00:36:05
Katie: Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you next time for another episode of Happily Ever After with me, Hannah Harvey. It would be wonderful if you could leave a review and subscribe. And of course, if you've got a friend who might enjoy this episode, then please do pass it on for anything else. You can get in touch with me through either Instagram @Mumsdays or through my website. Mumsdays.com