Happily Ever After - Joanne
Hannah: [00:00:00] Welcome to Happily Ever After, the podcast where we talk about life's big stories. From breakups and breakdowns to icky secrets and happy endings, it's the stuff that makes us human. I'm your host Hannah Harvey. I'm a writer and a parenting blogger at mumsdays.com. That's M U M S D A Y S dot com. I'd be really grateful if you could subscribe and leave a review because it basically means more people can find the podcast.
And I also really love hearing from you so please do contact me through Instagram @Mumsdays with any of your stories really and, and, you know, how you relate to the episode or even questions that you may want answering. You can find all the details from this episode in the show notes.
Hello and welcome to Happily Ever After, it's me Hannah, and today I'm joined by my lovely new ish friend Joanne Patterson.
Hannah: How you doing?
Joanne: I'm [00:01:00] all right, yeah.
Hannah: Thank you so much for coming in.
Joanne: Thank you for asking.
Hannah: So you. Our story dates back 19 weeks, did you know that?
Joanne: Is it 19 weeks?
Hannah: 19 weeks since the first. I was heartbroken, didn't know what to do with myself and I'd been told by several people I need to go get in the sea with Dip Club.
Hannah: And you saw that story that I did, didn't you?
Joanne: I did. I saw you walking down, was it South Parade?
Hannah: More or less. Yeah.
Joanne: Saying on your stories that you were going to dip club and you wanted to meet some new friends And I replied to that story saying you could come and make friends with us.
Hannah: Yay. And you have been like Quite consistently through the journey of me dipping every day, you've been keeping in contact loads. Which is like for me been absolutely lovely.
So I want to thank you for that and inviting me in. So for anybody who doesn't know- Joanne [00:02:00] every single morning Gets up at like 5am and gets in the sea and if you follow her stories, you'll see that she does a dance. She makes all her friends basically cartwheel into the sea.
Joanne: Yeah. It's at 5. 30 in the morning. So the alarm was set for 4. 40, I like to have a coffee before I leave the house, obviously to wake myself up a bit and yeah in the next couple of hours it's just spent sort of, you know, creating some energy. Creating some space, getting in the sea, you know, getting those happy hormones flowing before I head back home and get the kids up for school.
Hannah: That's crazy. What time do you go to bed?
Joanne: I'm trying to go earlier. Like if, if it's past 10 o'clock, it's too late.
Joanne: I do try and get up at least up the stairs by nine o'clock so I can sit and chill out for a bit and You know sort- make sure the kids are sorted. They're happy and then yeah, but any later than 10 o'clock. It's it's a problem [00:03:00] I'm really tired the next day.
Hannah: Yeah getting up at 4:40.
Hannah: So when I started That first day I was like, whoa, I feel completely, insanely amazing.
Hannah: And then the next day I happened to be going to the beach anyway with my family. So I got in again and then I'd started a two day streak.
Joanne: Yeah. It's so addictive, isn't it?
Hannah: And then I think it was that day that I'd seen that you'd done something like 30 in a row already.
Hannah: So you must have started like the month before me.
Joanne: 11th of April, my first dip was, yeah.
Hannah: Yeah. And you'd done this story about how much it changed your life and how much you felt better for it and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, I'm going to do the same thing.
Hannah: So that's kind of why I've carried on because I saw what you were doing.
Joanne: It's just so addictive, isn't it?
Hannah: Why did you start?
Joanne: Well I started because, so I would probably say for about two years and looking back now, you know, I can see [00:04:00] exactly what was going on when you're in Sort of that situation and it was a slow gradual sort of decline of Started losing interest in things that I used to love like going to the beach with the kids or going to the gym and going out for walks and you know, just basic things like that. Then I was struggling with really bad fatigue. You know, come two o'clock in the afternoon, I literally could not do anything else other than lie down.
And, and I just was, I didn't realize what was really going on. I just actually started to think, well, this must be what getting old feels like. You know, I'm slowing down, but I'm not ready to slow down. My brain's not catching up and and I went to the gym one morning and I walked into the gym and I just had this, well, what I know now was a hot flush.
This just wave of heat come over me and I was like, is this a hot flush? That's what I thought to myself straight away. I was like, and actually my [00:05:00] PT, Matt, he said, are you having a hot flush? And I was like, I think I might be. And it was at that point I went home and started thinking, okay, well, you're nearly, you're almost 50, you know.
But I still did think at that point I was too young for, for menopause and my basic knowledge on it. And then I started doing my own research. So it turns out that I'm, I'm what is referred to as perimenopausal which Davina likes to call the evil twin sister of menopause. And this is the, the run up to menopause where your hormones are declining.
They're very erratic. So for parts of the month, I'll feel on top of the world and then other times of the month, I'll feel like I just can't even function at all. I'm so tired quite miserable. So I started my a journey of HRT. But I still felt like something was missing. Like I needed to do something to challenge myself.
And I had watched another girl dipping for a year and I was like, you know what? And she always puts on social media and I was like, you know what? I'm going to message her. And so I [00:06:00] messaged Sarah and I said I'm going to dip. And I think I might've done that two or three times before I actually committed and went to meet her.
And the first dip was at Whitley Bay.
Hannah: Who's Sarah?
Joanne: Sarah. Sarah Goldsborough.
Hannah: What's her, her handle?
Joanne: The Geordie. The Geordie Ice Queen.
Hannah: Yeah. I thought that.
Joanne: And so I took the kid, the kids were like, yeah, we'll come. And the kids actually got,
Hannah: Was this in April?
Joanne: That was the 11th of April. So we got in the sea, and I can honestly say I thought, I felt like my soul had left my body.
When I went in the sea, I was, it was bitter. It took my breath away, literally. And I couldn't think of anything else other than how cold that water was. I didn't really know what was going on. I did manage to do a dunk, like dunk my head right under that. And that made me feel like really, I was like, wow, I've done that.
And... I think we were in about five or six minutes. And then I went home and I think I just felt really like euphoric. I was like, wow, I've just done that. And if I could do it and I might do it again. And then and I said [00:07:00] to Sarah, are you going tomorrow? And she was like, yeah, we're going tomorrow. So.
Hannah: Go every day, baby.
Joanne: And I went and we met at Cullercoats and it just sort of progressed from there. And I just fell in love with the, the way it made me feel. Instantly made me feel alive, full of energy, like I could do anything. And I was like, well, if it's making me feel this good, I'm not going to stop doing it.
And that's where it sort of all started. And yeah, and I've just done, I think I've done, well, I don't know which day it was, just hit 150 days consecutive.
Joanne: So I've decided to go for the year.
Hannah: May as well right?
Joanne: Yeah. I'm halfway. Well, I keep saying, I'm halfway there and I think doing it in the winter is I'm excited for that. I think because I know how cold it's going to be. Well, I don't like the 11th of April felt quite cold to me. It was very grim on a more, you know, like when we're going like early in the morning, the sea was quite rough. So, and I think that because I've got. It's become a habit. I'm quite comfortable with it.
I know what to [00:08:00] expect. It's just going to keep pushing me out of my comfort zone.
Hannah: So the last time I went with you, I remember, we were just about to go in and you were like, Oh, why do I do this? So it's not like that feeling of... It's not like it necessarily gets easier.
Hannah: Like some days, obviously, you'll be like skipping in and whatever. But there are still the days when you're like, Seriously, why the fuck am I doing this?
Joanne: Absolutely. Because, like, it's obviously when you do it with Dip Club, there's so many people on the beach.
Hannah: Yeah, you just get dragged in.
Joanne: Everybody's excited. Yeah. You know, everybody's running in, you know, and obviously you run to a schedule, so you've got to like get there for the photo and then you all run together and, and I think, you know, that's why a lot of people like dip club because of that sort of environment.
But there are the days when I wake up in the morning, I'm tired and When I get onto the Coast Road, if I can't see any sort of sunrise, I'm like, really disappointed. I'm like, oh my, where's the sun? Where's the sun? And if it's raining, it's quite brutal, you know, it's grim, it's cold. [00:09:00] You take your stuff off, it's gonna get wet, even though you're getting wet.
Hannah: Getting dry afterwards, you know, it's gonna be a struggle.
Joanne: Yeah, it can be quite grim, but for all the days that it's grim, when you get that spectacular sunrise, it's like, wow. You know, this is why I'm doing it because, you know, there's a saying, is there, like, along the lines of, you know, like you know, every day there will, you know, there's going to be a new day at some, you know, like, I can't remember the saying, but you know what I mean.
Hannah: Yeah, every day is a new day.
Joanne: Yeah, the sun will always rise again. And it does. And when it does, it's. It's just reminds me of why I like to be on the beach at sunrise. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that's the time I like to do it at sunrise.
Hannah: Yeah. If you want to dip with Jo, get ready to set your alarm really fucking early.
Joanne: We're doing it in the dark at the moment. Well, it can be quite dark, but you know, we're getting it done. Yeah.
Hannah: Okay. So do you think, cause what I've worked out through getting to know [00:10:00] you is. We have a very similar story, so like six years ago we both quit drinking, and before we talk about that, because I really am interested to know what you were thinking whilst I was also thinking the same sort of thing, so I want to ask you about that, but before that, I'm wondering if there's something in there, needing to do something every day, because if you don't do it one day, it then means It's harder to do it the next day.
Do you think you could skip a day and then still get back into it?
Joanne: I, I, I don't know. There's been times where I've thought, Oh, I'm not doing it in the morning because I know it's going to be raining and I'll go later in the day. But I know come four o'clock, you know, once the kids are in from school, one's going to football, one's going to gymnastics.
The, the thought of then thinking, Oh, but I have to do a dip. I've got to do a dip as well. Plus doing it in the morning sets me up for the day. There is definitely an element of. If I miss I'll [00:11:00] feel like I've let myself down. That's what I think I'll feel and that's probably, you know, something that I might have to work on because it's putting pressure. Unnecessary pressure.
Hannah: It's the slight addiction thing that I'm wondering about because I'm exactly the same.
Joanne: Addictive behaviours but it's a healthy addiction.
Joanne: And because I know of unhealthy addictions. This is something I'm more than happy to sort of pursue as long as I can, you know, like will I continue to do it after I've done the year? Absolutely. I probably will, but I'm not going to, I'm going to try not to sort of beat myself up if I can't make it one morning. Or, you know, or. Because I dipped every day when I went in the on holiday as well. Obviously the climate is completely different.
Hannah: I'm sorry, where were you? Because it wasn't Wales.
Joanne: It was Turkey.
Hannah: Oh no, it was Turkey.
Joanne: Yeah, but I also read that the, the cold water shock thing it, it doesn't matter. It's, it's, it's cold water exposure based on your current body temperature. So when you've adapted to the heat of being away, getting into the [00:12:00] sea is, yeah, it's still cold.
Hannah: So that makes sense. Because I was away in April in Spain and I didn't go in the sea.
Hannah: I went up to like my waist maybe and then I was like oh I don't want to do this. And then I came back to Britain and I'm getting in the North Sea every day. So it's once you get over the initial, like now, neither of us, if we go in the water, we're not like, which you do get at first, that whole like shock. Cold water shock.
Joanne: You've like, I think now I know what to expect when I'm going in there, which we're going back to what you were saying before, you sometimes go, why do I keep doing this to myself? Because you know what's coming, you know it's going to be cold. You know it's gonna probably, you know, shock you when you first get in.
You know it's gonna take a little bit of time to pluck up the courage to get under. But you also know that once you get under... That release and that excitement and that energy that it builds is just, there's nothing else like it that I've that I've experienced.
Hannah: Totally. I haven't been in yet.
Joanne: Have you not?
Hannah: I'm gonna. [00:13:00] I'm already excited about it.
Joanne: The sun is shining, you know.
Hannah: Isn't it?
Joanne: Yeah, exactly. Get it, get down there and get in.
Hannah: And so who are the people that you dip with now? Because you've got a little, like, crew of people that are always with you.
Joanne: Yeah, so it's just, I think, sort of as I've sort of progressed on my journey, You know, sort of the people that some people just, they don't dip every day.
They just dip as and when they can. The only one who's who's actually been dipped every single day that I have well, actually, no, that's, that's, that's not true. I've dipped every single day of his journey. Because he'd done it a couple of days after me, he's Dan. And Dan is like the sort of I hope he wouldn't mind me saying the dad of our group, you know, he's, he's, you know, he's the one consistent.
He's always there. He's happy to dance with me. And he's been on this incredible journey of of weight loss. He's lost 10 stone. He looks amazing. And. Yeah, so he's, you know, so obviously he's dipping every day. He wants to do the, yeah, he's just hit his 150 days as well.[00:14:00] And you know, he's like, I'm just going to go for the year as well.
So the consistents are, are me and Dan and then you've got other people that'll dip when they can, you know, if there's childcare issues you know, sometimes once a week, sometimes once you know, sort of once every couple of weeks, but, it doesn't matter, you know, like, yeah.
Hannah: Just come when you can. And expect to dance.
Joanne: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I can't help that. That, you know, the feeling of that, I think is a build up to getting in the sea. So like, it's, you know, your energy is already high. And yeah, the next thing is just to run into the sea.
Hannah: I love it.
Joanne: I do as well.
Hannah: I need to get down more. It's just that thing, first thing in the morning when you're like, oh.
Joanne: Yeah, it's not easy. It's not easy getting up at 4:40 in the morning. But it's worth it.
Hannah: It is.
Joanne: It is worth it, definitely.
Hannah: Huh. And do you feel like it's helped with your perimenopausal symptoms?
Joanne: Oh, yeah. Yeah Well, you know that I was asked to do a the Speedo Outdoor UK Series for, in partnership with Dip Club to raise awareness obviously.
Because [00:15:00] I think what I realised, my initial thought was, when I thought I might be, What you know, is, is the only thing I knew, word I knew was I was in menopause was that my first feeling of that was, I feel really old now. And I need to pull back a bit and not be seen as much. I felt that I was just, yeah, it was, it was, it was awful.
So I felt like I was grieving, I think a little bit, you know, and I've, I've heard, I've read that it's referred to as that because there was, there was an element of, oh wow, I feel really old. And then another one was and I can't have any more kids. Even though I didn't want any more children, I've got two children, right.
I was never going to have any more, but I think there's just that element of like, okay, the woman's side of, you know, my role here is, is almost like yeah, it's about to be sort of like cut, you know, and I'm not ready for that, but actually there's so much more information out there now, but what I did realize was that obviously.
Friends who are my [00:16:00] age, they weren't talking about this. And I was like, why are people not talking about this? And probably for the same reasons. Because of the rate, you know, the way I felt was they feel old. They feel like, Oh my goodness, this is like an old thing that's going to happen to us. And they were just, you know, didn't really know where to go for advice.
Didn't know where to find advice. So I thought, well, I'm going to do the talking for them then. And just start sharing as painful it was as it was at the time to get, you know, to, to build up the courage to go to put out there and go, okay, so this is where I'm at and I've just realized this is what it is.
And you know, about why we should talk about it. Because I mean, I've got a 12 year old daughter. I don't want her to get to my age and start thinking, am I depressed? You know or being offered antidepressants when she's not depressed and to look back and go, actually. My mom was like this, you know, my mom said to me, if I feel like this, if I feel attacked, you know, and just start looking for them sort of symptoms and go, actually, this is what's wrong with me.
[00:17:00] Because I think we've been done a massive disservice by, it's almost like a dirty secret, you know, nobody talks about it. I'd certainly, I think. At school. It's not something, you know that's openly discussed. I don't even know how I heard about sort of menopause. I think my basic understanding was that your, your monthly cycle stops and that's it.
Yeah. Well, in actual fact, that's not like that is the end result. And that's just one day. So you don't know you've, you've, you're actually in menopause until the last day that you've missed your cycle for 12 months in a row. And then it's just one day and that's it. But there's other health implications to losing your, like your hormones as well.
Like osteoporosis sort of heart. Heart conditions. So it's, yeah, there's not enough information, however, that's definitely improving over the last two years. More people are talking about it and the amount of girls that have had drop into my inbox and go, this is what I'm feeling. This is definitely [00:18:00] what I'm, you know the symptoms I've got.
And there are many symptoms. The basic ones, obviously, you know, like the, the hot flushes, you know, the restless legs and things like that, but there's so many more.
Hannah: And I'm pretty sure it goes on for longer than we realize. Yeah. So I've just turned 40. And sometimes when I'm talking about stuff online, people would be like, you should maybe get checked out because. You could be in perimenopause.
Joanne: Yeah. Because like I think from, is it right, sort of mid thirties, a woman, a woman's hormones will naturally start to decline anyway.
Hannah: Exactly right. So is that like, I dunno, it could be 20 years.
Joanne: Yeah, so they, I've, I've, I've, I've read, you know, conflicting where, you know, perimenopause could last. You know, anything up to six years or and then somebody will say, well, you start women's hormones and start to decline naturally from the age 35 anyway, but from probably mid forties. That's when you really might start noticing a difference, and I think that a lot of women just because they feel tired, they feel irritable, they're arguing with their [00:19:00] partners, their children, they're snappy, they've got no tolerance for anything, and they just like, they put weight on, and they're, you know, they're struggling, and they don't realize That actually, it's their hormones, they're fluctuating and they're just going absolutely mental.
And they go to the doctors. I went to the doctors, I was offered antidepressants three times, but I knew I wasn't depressed. Not that I know what depression feels like, but I, I was like, well... I don't feel like this all the time though, you know, like, I'm okay, like, sometimes, but then other times I feel, and I sort of convinced myself I was really unwell, and I maybe had some sort of like like cancer or something like that, and I was like, I've got to get to the bottom of this, and I read a post in a group of menopause, perimenopause support group, and the women's had written I've tried and tried and tried for the last three years to get some sort of balance with HRT and with other things that have been recommended and I'm, I'm not making any progress.
So I've decided to not do any, anything about it and [00:20:00] just accept where I am. And this is just, you know, I'm just going to be this person for the rest of my life. And I was like, no, no, no. And I made a promise to myself then we are not going to let this happen. We are going to get back to some. Like, some sort of version of me that I was before all of this started and I couldn't be any, like, better my, in a better place than what I am now and that is definitely because of the sea.
Joanne: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. I'm just so full of life again. I'm like, literally sort of bouncing off the walls, like, yeah, man. So, yeah, so, and I did the the Dip Club series thing for them to raise awareness, to get women talking about, you know, about perimenopause, menopause, and it be an open and honest conversation.
It's not something that should just be hidden and that you should do on your own. It should be talked about because actually men need to get on board with this as well. You know, they've got mothers. They've got [00:21:00] daughters, they've got sisters, and it affects everyone.
Joanne: You know, and at least if they know, oh, well actually, you know, my son will say to me, your hormones going mental again because you're a little bit snappy.
Do you know? Like, but like, are they Yeah, possibly. Yes, you're right. You, yes. Okay, I'll back off . So, yeah. And talk about it openly and honestly is what we need to be doing.
Hannah: Definitely. Because it's bec it, it's kind of like this. scary thing that we're meant to be going into. And why should we go into it alone when half the population does it?
Joanne: Yeah. Well, 50 percent of the population are going to go through like menopause. So yeah. Why, why, why are we not talking about it? Why are we not? But. I see stuff popping up all about it.
Hannah: Yeah, I think a lot of the stuff around what Davina's done and... I read this amazing book a few years ago by a woman called Maisy, can't remember her surname, put it in the show notes called Period Power, and that was all about how to manage your [00:22:00] hormones when you're on your period, and that completely changed the way I looked at my own cycle, and managing...
I guess it's like keeping track of what your emotions are doing so that you can be like, Oh, I'm ovulating.
Hannah: Like the last couple of weeks have been super fast paced.
Hannah: And then it's like, Oh, now I need to slow down because if I don't, I'm going to crash.
Joanne: 100%. 100%. And it's not, I mean, a lot of women don't even know their own cycles. I mean, I didn't.
Hannah: Exactly. I didn't until a few years ago. And then she's since written a book called Menopause Power.
Hannah: Which will be my next read.
Joanne: Oh, I might read that then.
Hannah: Yeah. But it's things like that and then obviously all the stuff Davina's doing.
Hannah: Just opening it up because... It shouldn't be a secret and we shouldn't feel like we have to now go into hiding because we've, our service here is done on this planet.
Joanne: Yeah. And I think that's the articles I read when I first started, you know, researching for myself. I think I found an old article from like 1991 that said, you know. You know, for women, they may feel like they're, you know, their life is [00:23:00] coming to an end, their role as a mother.
Hannah: At the age of 45.
Joanne: Yeah. And I was like, what am I reading? Do you know, like, no, no. Like, and it's no wonder, you know and like I said to my mother, how old were you when you went through menopause? And she went, I went through early. I was like early forties. It was. We'd lost my dad when my mum was 40. She went, and it pretty much went, you know, happened then.
And she went, but I sailed through it. And I'm like, hmm.
Hannah: Did you?
Joanne: And I'm like, I beg to differ. Do you know, like, because I think that grief.
Hannah: Grieving and?
Joanne: Yeah, and menopause. Menopause. I mean, there's a fundamental flaw in this whole menopause thing anyway, because like, for most women especially women who've had children, they're going to go start going through perimenopause, menopause when their children are teenagers.
Yeah, and it's like, come on, do you know what I mean? Dealing with a teenager and your own hormones, it's it's not easy.
Hannah: You're going to be snappy.[00:24:00]
Joanne: You're definitely going to be snappy, 100%. I can guarantee that.
Hannah: And then your kids are going to start being like, You're being especially snappy tonight, mother. Are you feeling hormonal?
Joanne: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's why, you know, if you have these conversations with them and let people know what's going on, then...
You're not snapping at them for, and then them being like, what is wrong with, you know, what's wrong with mum, is she okay?
Hannah: What have I done wrong?
Joanne: Yeah, they're like, yeah, okay, we know what's going on. We'll why don't you go and jump in the sea?
Hannah: Mum, I really think we should go back to the sea. But that's what's so lush about the sea, I think, because we, we're just playing.
Joanne: Yeah, it's an inner child's, like, piece of work, isn't it? That. 10 15 minute. Well, you've only got to listen to some of the videos that come out of You know that I do on the beach I've started doing posting them actually, you know the little laughs that we have as well because I do post always with music on when I was started posting a few [00:25:00] of like You know outtakes, you know to see what really goes on because it's easy to make it look but if you show people actually it, it does challenge you, you know, it's going to take some, you know, some strengths to get in there.
But when you hear some of the laughter coming out of the sea, you know, people shrieking because they were playing in the waves. It's such a, an amazing way to meet people, you know, to challenge yourself and to have some good old fun. You know, like it's like and it's free
Hannah: It's like bonding on steroids.
Hannah: Because you go in you're like stripped of Everything that's going on in your head So all you have is this like euphoric feeling and then you're with somebody else who's doing it with you. So it's like, how can you not, like, supercharge the bond?
Joanne: Yeah, totally. And you're going to meet so many people as well, and I think that you're vulnerable anyway, because you're going into the sea in just your bather. And, but everybody else is in that situation as well. I've never once felt judged, you know, by[00:26:00] other women, you know, like, and I think we can tend to get caught up in that.
And I've never once looked at someone and went, you're looking better and happier than I do. Nothing like that. It's like, everybody's just sort of, you know, praising each other and like, Oh my God, you look amazing. And just sharing each other's stories and getting involved in meeting up outs, you know, and other, you know, sort of little events as well.
Marshmallows and a fire on the beach. I mean, you can't get more perfect than that, you know, like on a summer's evening.
Hannah: Mm hmm.
Joanne: It's just amazing compared to the, you know, the party girl I used to be. This is just a life I think I've always wanted to live, but didn't really know how to live it.
Joanne: So, yes.
Hannah: Very much relate to that. Mm. Which leads us nicely to six years ago.
Hannah: So you've just had 10th of September your sixth year anniversary of quitting drinking?
Hannah: And I quit on the 21st of October, that same year.
Hannah: So a month or so later.
Hannah: Do you wanna talk me through what was happening?
Joanne: Yeah, I mean, [00:27:00] like, I've been, you know, a party girl all of my life. I raved, you know, through the 90s. I had nobody, you know, I didn't have any children. And when everyone else stopped raving, I carried on, you know, like, and I just wanted, you know, I just partied hard all the time, you know, I would work through the week and obviously then just go out and absolutely get obliterated on a weekend.
You know, and at times it was, it was, it was problematic. I would, you know, just, just go out to get drunk and I would go out because and get drunk because I couldn't, when I look at, when I say this now, it sounds so bizarre, but I think my mantra was, well, I just can't be myself. If I, I can't go out and be myself if I haven't had a drink.
Hannah: Oh yeah, I totally relate to that.
Joanne: But when you look at that now and strip that back and you think, well actually then, so who was that person? Because it wasn't me. You know, you've got this sort of ego about you that's like, well certainly for me it was like, I need this. I need to do this to give me the confidence [00:28:00] to go out.
So I would start drinking, you know, well before I went out. I mean, I would pass out earlier, but, you know, I would drink before I went out. And, you know, if there was an after party, I'd be there. But then... I would carry on drinking like on a Sunday. And then a Sunday went
Hannah: Hair of the dog and all that.
Joanne: And then a Sunday, went into a Monday off work and then a Monday off work went into a week off work. And there would be like periods in my life where I would say, okay, that's it. I'm done. And, and I wouldn't drink and then as soon as there was like a social event or somebody's birthday or Christmas or anything like that, it would be, I know what's coming, I don't wanna, like, but it'll be fine this time, you know, like, I know different now.
Hannah: Yeah, I can moderate.
Joanne: Yeah, I can just have one. I can just have, like, I can not drink spirits and just, you know, just have a few cheeky halves, but, like, Once you have one all bets are off.
Joanne: It is, you know, it's pretty much like it's a free for all at that point. And, but, and then I had [00:29:00] two children. Well obviously I had my first and I didn't drink throughout both pregnancies. I breastfed both children. And that was like, I enjoyed, you know, sort of like that I'd left that party lifestyle behind. But eventually, you know, when the kids were toddlers, it was like, you know what, I'm gonna have a half and it's gonna be fine because I'm a different person now.
I'm a mum. Yeah. Why would I, you know, I'm not a party girl anymore. Why would that happen? And slowly but surely that just started, you know, infiltrating back in, you know you know, a weekend would be, you know, like, like, that's it. Well, you know, It would just start again and then I would be ill through the week, you know, like trying to be a mum, trying to work and and it just caused so many issues, you know, in my life.
Everything just sort of, you know, if I look back and unpick it, it was like every problem I seemed to have just always led back to, you know, the drink will be the solution. I can't deal with that now. Let's just have a bottle of wine instead. And [00:30:00] it just got quite dark and depressing. And I separated from the, the kid's dad March 2017. And the next six months of that was really quite, it was, it was, it wasn't a very nice time because obviously I was trying to deal with the separation, trying to deal with being a single mum and as soon as the kids went to bed, it would be like, right, okay, this is how I'm going to deal with this and this is.
Hannah: How I unwind. I'll just have a glass.
Joanne: Yeah, exactly.
Hannah: I'll just have half a bottle.
Joanne: Yeah, I'll be fine. Yeah. And, and I think that it just got to a point where I thought if I don't do something about this now. It's going to be a decision that's taken out of my hands. And that's when I said, you know, I made it, you know, I was, I was frightened of my own shadow at that point, by the way, I was terrified of everything.
I was frightened. I was, I was anxious. I was paranoid. I was just really, really, literally surviving. And I started looking to, to try and get some help [00:31:00] to try and get, and I found that quite difficult. You know, there was an element of shame. In fact, it wasn't an element of shame. There was a lot of shame.
You know, how does a a mum of two go and ask for help, you know, about. Stopping drinking alcohol without it being a full, you know, sort of, I felt like it was going to be a witch hunt and, you know, like, oh, okay, we have another one, you know, like, but actually I did, you know, you've got to push to find this thing, it's not readily, some of this information isn't readily available.
It's like, oh, well, you know, just reduce your drinking or just don't, you know, go to the doctors and they'll say, well, maybe just when you go out, don't drink cocktails. And it's like, none of it is obviously very helpful, but they're limited resources, but finding your way into some real help proved quite difficult.
But once, once I found it and I was like, okay, this is it, but this is going to be the start of I just, you have to get to a point where you accept. Right, that you have got [00:32:00] a problem with alcohol and you need to do something about it. You can't go into this like with a, I'm going to sort it out and I'm going to be able to have a drink at Christmas.
Right, you have to have sickened yourself enough where you think, no, that's it, I'm done. And I was at that point. And this is my journey then for the last six years was sort of, you're almost starting again to build a new life. You might have to. Move away from people that you've spent most of your adult life with, you know, friends that are, have, you know, just want to continue to do that kind of thing.
It's quite a lonely place. It is very lonely. But slowly, but surely you'll, you know, you just start to feel better every day. And you're like, okay, what can I do now? Where can I go next? And.
Hannah: Who did you, who helped you?
Joanne: So I went to a place in in Wallsend. I think they've got a few places actually. It's called NTRP.
Hannah: N T R P, okay.
Joanne: Which is North, I'm [00:33:00] sure it stands for North Tyneside Recovery Partnership.
Joanne: So they have a, a load of, like, sort of resources and people that can give you advice on you know, how to reduce your drinking. You know, where you could go, meetings you could go to if you wanted to.
Hannah: Did you do AA?
Joanne: I went to loads of AA meetings.
Hannah: Am I allowed to ask that?
Joanne: Yeah, I mean, I went to loads of AA meetings. Yeah.
Hannah: And did they did that help?
Joanne: In the early days. Yeah. I mean, like it's.
Hannah: It's meeting other people, isn't it?
Joanne: Yeah. And I think that I was frightened to go there as well because I was like, oh God.
Hannah: What if social services are outside.
Joanne: Yeah, yeah.
Hannah: That too.
Joanne: Yeah. I'm not that bad. And then you always think to yourself as well, what if I go there and I see somebody I know. But then you, you realize that like, well, actually, if there's something there, exactly. And then, you know, you have these sort of misconceptions of what it's going to be like when you get in there.
And and when I went, I remember going to my first meeting and sitting there and thinking, Oh my goodness me, like you will hear some awful, horrific[00:34:00] stories. But you will also hear for people that didn't make it as well. You know, like and it's quite a scary place to be, you know, and you, you know, you're, you know, Yeah, your mental health is on the floor, you're, you know, crying out internally for somebody to just sort of say, it's going to be all right, you know and then when that doesn't come and you know that it's all down on you to do it, it's like, you've got to do that, you've got, you have to do that journey yourself, like other people can want it for you, but until you're ready to go, I'm done here, I'm absolutely done, so I'm going to do whatever I can now to change my life.
Yeah. And, and I just sort of made my way through, like, they were, by the way, they were amazing. Like, NTRP, the there's so many resources that they've got access to but I eventually, like, sort of reduced the drinking until I wasn't drinking any alcohol. Because by that point, by the way, like, I was, you, you would, I would look sober, but I was just so topped up with alcohol and that was just to keep me upright.[00:35:00]
It was pretty grim and yeah, and, and they helped me and I'll be forever grateful for them. I do often actually call in, you know, to to say hi. I mean, people change there all the time. But it definitely got me on the right track, you know, because going to your GP, the, the services have been sort of outsourced from them now, they don't really deal with that kind of thing there's not really a lot of information, you know, if you're starting to look for yourself, it's like, what do I do, where do I go, you know, but it's, yeah, single handedly the best thing, best decision, you know, that I've ever made.
Hannah: When, one of the things that, Really stuck out for me when I first quit was that I just had no idea who I was.
Hannah: And it's that thing of like, well I have to keep drinking because... That's my, that's when my personality comes out.
Hannah: And I'll have no friends and I'll be really, I was always really terrified of being boring.
Hannah: I was like, I'm just be the boring one and everyone will [00:36:00] cut me off.
Joanne: I mean, I've tried that and I've went out and I was like, okay, I'm not drinking. So, but I'm still going to go out with the people that I would used to go out with anyway. And, just torment myself, basically, do you know, like.
Hannah: So you wouldn't do that?
Joanne: Yeah, I've, I've done that in the past, you know, like, and I've drank non alcoholic, you know beers and things like that. But, and I think for me, it was almost as like, but you're not changing your habits here. You know, you're trying to still live a life that no longer serves you. So, but you're not, the only thing that you're doing is you're drinking, like, non alcoholic beer.
The emotions that you're going through and the ideas and the, what underpins all of that is like sort of like what you feel about yourself. So it's like, I'm still going to put myself in a party situation, but I'm not, I'm choosing not to drink alcohol. I'm just drinking non alcoholic drinks. For me that wasn't gonna work. It had to be a complete change of lifestyle. And it's like, take myself out of those situations. But just going back to your point there, finding out [00:37:00] who you were, I could not sit in that house. And, well, Obviously there was a family home that just went to sort of our home and the kids would, you know, in the early days go up to their dads for every other weekend.
And for that weekend, I couldn't bear to be in the house by myself. It was like. The self negative self talk it was a constant battle to try and quieten that down. And of course I now realize that I used to what I used to do was when I felt like that previously I would just have a drink. Yeah, you know like okay, we're all right now.
Okay, we're good Do you know but when you're not using anything else to change the way how you feel then you have to deal With those emotions, you have to deal with the, like who you are. And I've done a lot of mindset work. I've been in quite a few programs like self development programs not necessarily related to alcohol or anything like that, just self development on, you know, discovering who you are as a person, what makes you [00:38:00] tick, what makes you laugh, what makes you, you know, joyful and learning to connect with who you are as a person.
And I laugh at myself now thinking, I can't believe I used to say to myself, you can't be yourself if you don't have a drink. Now I'm like, wow. Cause I, I love who I am. And I like, I'm so content with the person that I am, that I can just, the more time I can have on my own, Hannah, the better. Because I just love my own company, do you know what I mean? The better, I'm like, yes!
Hannah: I think I still need to get there.
Hannah: If I'm in the house, because you're an extrovert, right?
Joanne: I, what?
Hannah: Are you an extrovert?
Joanne: Do you mean, what do you mean?
Hannah: Like, if I sit in the house for more than an hour or two on my own, I'm like - oh my god I fucking hate this.
Joanne: I mean, I, there are, you know, times where, like, I need to but I do like to chill.
Do you know, like, I do like my own company. I don't like, I just, I'll go out for a walk on my own.
Hannah: Yeah, I like going for a walk because I'm doing something, but it's the sitting in the house on my own thing that after a while I start being a bit like,
Joanne: I mean, if I'm in [00:39:00] the house on my own, I don't actually just sit in a seat and, you know, like, and I'll be doing things, you know, to occupy myself.
But but it took me a long time to get there. Like, I really hated who. I hated being alone with myself and my own thoughts. And I would go and walk on the beach for hours
Joanne: By myself.
Hannah: That's where I think I am now.
Joanne: Hours and hours and hours. Go and grab a coffee by myself. Borrow other people's dogs to take to the beach and just like, and stay down there until the kids came home.
Then that chaos would resume and I would be okay again. It was like, okay.
Hannah: Yeah, the distractions great.
Joanne: Yeah. So. Being on your own and learning to really discover like sort of who you are it's a process that I think you, you, you're probably going through yourself and it's like, you will get to a point where you think, I'm so happy being by myself, do you know what I mean because that was another thing as well, that I'm still single after six and a half years with no actual plan to [00:40:00] go and like, I'm just, I don't need anybody. I'm really the happiest I've ever been. And I just think having somebody else on the scene would just be a distraction.
Hannah: Well, yes.
Hannah: I've been through that process.
Hannah: You use like, I think there's a few things when you stop one addiction.
Hannah: Is you can then just pass it on to other things. So like eating disorders.
Hannah: Sex, codependency, that kind of thing. It's like a really nice distraction.
Hannah: But you didn't do that.
Hannah: What did you, did anything pass on? Did you get, like?
Joanne: No, so, when I, when I, when I decided, I was like, okay, enough's enough. My main priority was obviously creating an environment where we could all thrive, you know, like the kids and, and I just sort of, like, I, I'm going to just dedicate however long it takes to getting myself and my two children through, you know, this separation keeping them as focused as I [00:41:00] possibly could on their own lives without too much disruption, and that wouldn't include anybody else. It just needed to be me and the two kids and just focus on them. And there was never, like, my sister put a post out on Facebook, I think after about three years, when I was single.
And she done a really, mind you, it was a really lovely post, right? It was, you know, the best picture of me. Saying, okay, this is my sister. She is a single mum of two children and she's been single for three years, right? She needs to get out and meet someone.
Hannah: She put that on Facebook. Were you like...
Joanne: Please share it. And this is what she was saying. Please share it. And whilst I laughed and people were like, Oh my God, I love this and sharing it. Oh my God, I love this, I'm sharing it. And I'm like, but... And I'm actually, you know, people will say to me, you know, if you met someone else, it would lighten the load and it's like.
Hannah: No, that's not what happens.
Joanne: But I don't want the load lightened, you know, like, I don't need to depend on somebody else, right? I don't need to be financially [00:42:00] supported off somebody else. The journey and the challenge for me has been getting all of that by myself.
Joanne: I don't want to be back in a position where somebody has could make a decision that would ultimately leave me homeless or my children homeless and I'm not prepared to put myself in that situation again.
So I fought hard for the life I've got now, the person I've become for the, for the life that my children's got now, which is totally underpinned and financed by myself. And I've enjoyed that process, I think. In fact, I have cause I can say I did that. I think there's a saying, is it? Focus on the things that they can't take away from you, which is like your character, you know, your Your personality and things like that.
Joanne: Yeah, because they can't, you know, like, and the more you, the stronger you become, the less tolerant of bullshit you are as well. It's just like, no, no.
Joanne: Yeah, no, yeah. Do I mean? I just do not, I can't tolerate, like I know what my boundaries are now. [00:43:00] I know what I will and won't accept. And as soon as I get a little sniff of, even just, like, I think drama, like, will attract itself to anyone, doesn't it?
But there are situations now where I'll think, okay, I'm not feeling comfortable with this situation, so I'm not gonna say to you, this is drama, I'm removing myself from the situation, I'll just naturally take a step back, you know, like, and Yeah, you're on. I'm not doing it.
Hannah: So if you disappear from my life, I know why.
Joanne: There's no drama. I can't do drama.
Hannah: I'm not dealing with your drama. Take that.
Joanne: Oh yeah.
Hannah: Because there is a little bit with a bit of sea dipping. Mix plenty of people together and there'll be some fireworks.
Joanne: Well, there's always going to be that. I think I was like, in the first sort of few months, I was like, this is amazing and everybody's happy.
Hannah: We we all love each other.
Joanne: Yeah, we all embrace each other and then the first time I see you, you think a little bit of drama and then you think, oh. Okay, so it's like, yeah, so it's like, it's everywhere then, do you know what I mean?
Hannah: Yeah, it doesn't matter what you're doing.
Joanne: But I [00:44:00] think that, like, a lot, like, you know, when people are just naturally like, Okay, well I'm happy enjoying the skipping and the sea type of thing. So we're going to move away from the drama and just carry on doing what.
Hannah: We want to skip over there.
Hannah: Please don't follow.
Joanne: Yeah. There's plenty of beaches.
Hannah: There's a lot of beach to go around and a lot of things.
Joanne: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, but yeah, and it's, it took a, and I think, again, like, very much like, sort of, menopause for women. You know, they're, if they're drinking at home, and they're, you know, they're worried about how much they're drinking, they don't really know where to go for help.
They don't really want to be, you know, sort of, I know, you know, a woman who said, she said to her husband, Listen, I'm drinking too much. No, you're not! Do you know what I mean? And if somebody says to you, Oh my God, you haven't got a problem, man. Everyone in the North East drinks alcohol. I mean, this is a North East, we party here.
And if you've got people around you who have that mentality, then you're never, I think, going to be able to sort of pull yourself away from that. [00:45:00] If it's like, Ah, yeah, I'm not that bad, man. Everyone in the North East is a binge drinker.
Hannah: Yeah. And when your brain is like wanting you to have a drink because you are addicted, then you are naturally gonna go find the people that make you feel better about it.
Joanne: Yeah, exactly. So that's why you have to, you know, you might have to change your actual whole environment.
Hannah: Interesting. I went out on Saturday night not drinking obviously, but.
Joanne: Oh, you went with disco.
Hannah: So I went to a silent disco and I had such a good time and I danced really hard and it was like, The first time I'd done something like that in absolutely ages where I was properly just letting my hair down But I wonder if that environment actually sort of triggered feeling because I felt pretty terrible yesterday.
Hannah: Like, you know, it's a busy day all that kind of stuff I've just bought a new house. I'm a bit in that phase of still trying to step into what you've achieved and doing it all on my own with the kids
Joanne: Yeah, it's hard.
Hannah: I got that real feeling of like I [00:46:00] can't do it on my own.
Joanne: As I mean, like, I would be lying if I said that, you know you know, I've got a very, you know, snow white life now. I'm skipping through the bush, you know, the forest with the birds. But like, it's not like that at all.
Hannah: You've got seven little men in the background.
Joanne: Come on, hi ho. Like, it's not like that at all. Do you know what I mean? There are very much elements of, of, of where it gets hard, you know, like the kids are going to need something or there's a school trip comes up or something like that or we've just fell out the school holidays and we're falling into Christmas and I'll fall back to old ways of thinking not like, obviously that I would like the, I couldn't think anything worse.
There is nothing that a glass of wine would ever sort out that you can't deal with yourself. But being a mum and being a single mum is, is really bloody hard, you know, like, you, you know, it's like, oh, you've got all plates spinning. So, you know there are going to be days where they just feel horrendous and you think, Oh my God.
And then you start blaming other people where, you know, if they did what they were [00:47:00] supposed to do. I wouldn't have to do this. But I've had a really good conversation today where we talked about exchanges of energy. And, you know, when I'm on the beach and I'm dancing with other people and that's an exchange of energy, but it's good energy.
When I'm trying to have a conversation about childcare or, you know, child support, I'm trying, I'm giving all of my energy to that person and then they're not responding in a way that I would expect them to. That then is a drain on my energy and I have to be mindful of that because once I start trying to get into those conversations it can quickly, you know, get me down and I'm like, oh god, it's all just down to me and, and it's hard, it really is hard, so don't beat yourself up for having bad days, you know, like, just don't because, yeah.
Hannah: Yeah, it was a bit of a, a bad one. I ended up having to get my ex to come and and get the kids because I was like, I can't cope.
Joanne: Yeah, you can't do everything.
Hannah: And there's a little element of like, but I'm so [00:48:00] lucky.
Hannah: And you, you do have to keep that in mind because, you know, he does have them 50 50, so they do get a lot of time.
Hannah: But I guess it all depends how much
Joanne: But everything just seems to fall apart when you've got them, that's the problem. It's like, none of this happens when they're with Dad.
Joanne: You know, like, so, yeah, it's, it's hard. But what you're just saying there, we have elements of When you think, wow, actually, I've got so much to be grateful for. I've come so far. I've recently just read that they're actually called glimmers. So you've got triggers, which can trigger you into starting thinking negatively. And then you've got your glimmers where you have like moments of going, you know what? I'm all right. Like, I've come so far.
Hannah: And you do have to keep reminding yourself though, because I find glimmers can trigger me.
Hannah: Because then I can be like, why are you being such a fucking idiot about this? You've got all of this stuff and you're making a massive fuss about that. So you've got to be careful not to use it as a, Oh, I'm so grateful and I'm okay. Everything's going to be fine. It [00:49:00] doesn't need to be dealt with today.
Hannah: Probably just need to eat some nourishing food and go to bed, which is exactly what I did. I basically just put myself to bed.
Joanne: I do that as well, it's like, goodnight.
Hannah: You were not helpful today, so go to bed and you know.
Joanne: We'll start again tomorrow. We'll throw ourselves in the sea.
Joanne: And it'll all be fine.
Hannah: Oh, Jo, this has been so lovely. Thank you so much for coming in and for sharing that because I, yeah, I do feel like there's so many similarities, but like, I have a lot to learn, I think, from the way you're doing things.
Joanne: It's just a, it's just a huge, I mean, it's just a huge learning curve, isn't it? It's like just learning what works for you and what doesn't. But I remember you saying, actually, You've done, I don't know, you've put a post up or you've done a podcast about it, about making friends at 40. And I was like, I could relate to that so much because even when the, the guys were saying, we're going on the beach and we're going to have fire [00:50:00] marshmallows.
There, there's people in, you know, that I don't know in that sort of group. And I was like, and they were like, just come. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go. And then by, as I let this, you know, I got into my own head and I'm like, Oh God, they'll not want me around if it's just all of their friends. And it's really quite easy to talk yourself out of going.
But when I went and it was just the most wholesome night and everyone was just sitting chatting.
Hannah: It was the blue moon, wasn't it?
Joanne: Yeah. Oh my God, that was, yeah. And then we got popped in the sea. Yeah. And it's like, those moments, I think they're meant to happen. You know, and, you know, by pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and keep putting yourself in situations that challenge you and move you out of being comfortable It's just growth, you know, like it's.
Hannah: And I think when it comes to making friends, you, we're all still 10.
Hannah: Turning up and being like.
Joanne: It's hard to try and fit in, isn't it, as well, it's like, okay, so.
Hannah: Can I be, your friend?
Hannah: And you just feel super awkward and.
Hannah: Like, oh, and by the way, I don't drink. Yeah, like, like you were apologizing all the time.
Joanne: [00:51:00] What do you, what do you do then?
Hannah: And I'm a bit of a show off and I like talking and.
Joanne: Yeah, I mean, somebody said to me once and it'll always stick with me. And I'll pass that on to anyone. It's like, if you want to take this route and you know, you, you've decided that you want to live a sober life, like just remember that you can do anything you want, right? You can achieve anything you want in this life. The only thing you can't do is drink. If you look at it that way, it just opens up a whole new perspective of things.
Because if you just think, I can't drink, which means I can't go and meet people, I can't go out and party, I can't meet a partner, I can't, you know, I can't do this and do that. It's, you just close yourself in, whereas in actual fact you can do anything. The only thing you can't do is have a drink.
Hannah: I think for me, I'm like, oh, I don't ever want to drink again, but I'm more feel like I'm apologetic to other people.
Hannah: Because I'm still thinking that they think the way I used to think.
Joanne: Yeah. You're just assuming that they're gonna judge you.
Joanne: I learnt [00:52:00] that. Yeah, okay, so when I don't drink, it's like.
Hannah: Nobody actually cares what you're doing.
Joanne: Thanks for that admission but actually neither do we. Actually, that was just such a lovely thing about, like, Dip Club. It was like, oh, and, you know, and I read their, sort of, bio on, and it was like, we are a a sober curious community.
Joanne: And I didn't know that. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, and when you see how many people sort of go in, not obviously not everybody's like sober, who goes there or sober curious, which is the new sort of, you know, I'm only going to drink sometimes.
I'm not going to drink all the time. And then when you realize that there are actually, you're not the only one. That doesn't want to do this lifestyle anymore. They, there's so many people. There's 8,000 followers now. And we're like, yeah. And if you show them the way, people will follow. Because, sure enough, the people who are up that end of town, you know, absolutely caning it.
Like, will be heading down to [00:53:00] the beach to go, I need some peace, I need to get in the sea. So, yeah.
Hannah: On that note, that's what we'll be doing. I'm going in later.
Joanne: Oh yeah, you said.
Hannah: Heading down to King Eddie's.
Joanne: Oh yeah. Yeah. What day is it? It's Monday, isn't it?
Hannah: It's Monday, yeah.
Joanne: So what are you doing tonight? Are you just meeting up or are you just going by yourself?
Hannah: Well, me and Lewis have got to go and do a sound check. Because do you know that I'm doing the Ripple Effect?
Joanne: Yes, so when do they come?
Hannah: They are coming the 8th of October.
Joanne: And they're doing a dip, aren't they?
Hannah: Yeah, with Dip Club.
Joanne: Yeah, is that after you've talked to them?
Joanne: Or before, okay.
Hannah: So 9am. We'll do like a Q& A with the authors. That's the bit that I'm doing and then we'll all just go throw ourselves in the sea.
Joanne: So where is it at? Is it at Whitley Bay?
Hannah: It's in king Eddie's.
Joanne: King Eddie's.
Hannah: It's at Riley's Fish Shack.
Joanne: So where will it, will it come here then?
Hannah: No, we'll just record it down there. So that's why me and Lewis are going down to see if we can make sure the sound works. So that I can [00:54:00] record it as a podcast and then put it live on Tuesday.
Hannah: But that's terrifying, isn't it?
Joanne: Yeah. Well, no. You'd be great.
Hannah: I've got two roots.
Joanne: You're a natural. You're a natural.
Hannah: Thanks, Jo.
Joanne: You're very welcome.
Hannah: Well, thank you so much for coming down and for sharing all your stories of menopause and the sea and drinking and singleness. I really appreciate it.
Joanne: It sounds quite depressing, doesn't it, at times when you talk about it.
Hannah: But that's the thing. It's not is it?
Joanne: Yeah, it's just like...
Hannah: You're literally a big kid that gets in the sea every day.
Hannah: Are we regressing?
Joanne: Yeah, 100%. I need to go back and like, tell her, you know, it's like, you're gonna be fine, you know. You just keep dancing, girl.
Hannah: Benjamin button the shit out of this. We're just gonna get younger as we get older.
Joanne: It's another benefit as well, getting in the sea, isn't it? Like, the sea glow that you get.
Joanne: It's unreal.
Hannah: Look how fresh we are.
Joanne: I know. Fresh and vibrant. Like a whole three princesses. Mermaids even.
Hannah: Mermaids. [00:55:00] Well thank you Jo.
Joanne: You're very welcome.
Hannah: Alright then, thank you so much for listening and I'll see you again next time for another episode of Happily Ever After with me, Hannah. It would be amazing if you could leave a review and subscribe.
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