68 - Dealing with Low Self-Esteem and 5 Things You Shouldnt Do After 7pm
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Hannah: [00:00:00] Welcome to Happily Ever After, the podcast where we talk about life's big stories, from breakups and breakdowns, to icky secrets and happy endings. It's the stuff that makes us human. I'm your host, Hannah Harvey. I'm a writer and a parenting blogger at mumsdays. com. I'd be really grateful if you could subscribe and leave a review because it basically means more people can find the podcast.
And I also absolutely love hearing from you. So please do contact me through Instagram @mumsdays, M U M S D A Y S, with any of your stories and any thoughts you might have on the episode or any questions. You can find all the details from this episode in the show notes.
Hello and welcome to Happily Ever After. It's me, Hannah, and today I'm joined by Katie.
Katie: Hello everybody.
Hannah: And I say it like that because you're not feeling great are [00:01:00] you Bab?
Katie: Oh, yeah, I know. Got a few things going on.
Hannah: So we want to talk about and take this opportunity to talk about self esteem.
Katie: Yes, because I think I'm struggling with that a little bit at the minute.
Hannah: And having, we've had like a bit of preamble discussion about this and I relate hard. Especially in, like, as you're in the, the flow of post breakup situation.
Katie: Yeah, so I think. Basically what happened at the end of my relationship was, I was living with my partner, but he had decided that he was struggling a little bit with living with me, wasn't too keen on it in the first place, so we decided to split up, and it's left me in a, Sort of fairly vulnerable place.
I think where like I am worried that I'm not good enough and my self esteem is a bit low And I think it's affecting me in other parts of my life as well. Which is why we thought we'd talk about it on the podcast today
Hannah: Definitely because [00:02:00] yeah, some of the stuff that you've told me about I'm like, yes, I definitely had that.
Katie: Yeah
Hannah: And I think one of the, the big ones that stuck out was that feeling that you're going to get told off.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Hannah: And being afraid of doing something wrong.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: In case you get caught out.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's, it's funny, self esteem is a funny thing actually, because like we think of it as something that's internal. But actually, it's completely based on what other people, what we think other people think of us, you know?
Hannah: Yeah.
Katie: And that's what can boost it. Of course you can boost it yourself as well, but that's what affects it. And that's why I think that it's, mine's gone downhill after a breakup because you worry that you're not good enough, you know? And then it can have knock on effects in other areas as well.
Hannah: For sure. So I think the big thing that came out of therapy for me was I was basically frozen in a [00:03:00] place of fear. I couldn't move. I was completely boxed myself in. I didn't know what to do. And in order to get out, we had to look at I'm trying to remember what he called it, but it was basically like, what was the underlying theory that my brain had about myself.
Katie: Yeah, yeah.
Hannah: And we had to, oh that was it, and we had to move from theory A to theory B. But it's quite a bit of probing around and looking for evidence so you can actually say to your brain, No, look, I'm not shit. It's alright, look, I've done these things.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: But it takes a bit of work and a bit of, Practice, and you need to establish what it is you think in the first place.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Cause, well, I mean, so you, you, it starts in childhood. And you build your self esteem based on, like, your childhood circumstances. And then, if you get into the habit of negative self talk and things like that, then it's really [00:04:00] easy to just go back to that when something happens. I think and so if you, your natural state is negative self talk, then you're naturally going to have low self esteem at moments like this, you know, and so you do have to teach yourself that other narrative so that you've got that to go to as well.
Hannah: Yeah. But I think the main thing of getting out is you can't think your way out of it.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: You have to act.
Katie: That's right. Yeah.
Hannah: So there's a great book called The Confidence Code. And the big takeaway I got from that is confidence comes from action.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Like you literally. You know, say coming to the podcast today, we can sit and be nervous as much as we want.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: But like, until we actually sit down and talk, we are never going to get past.
Katie: The nervousness.
Hannah: That nervousness, you just have to sit down and do it.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Hannah: But yeah, back in like a year and a half [00:05:00] ago, before I started the podcast and being like back online. I was just like, I couldn't even do an Instagram post.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: It just felt too much. So I think when your self esteem is that low. You have to strip everything back, like there's loads of, you know, all this kind of stuff online about thinking big and go big or go home or, you know, discipline, we're going to do this thing and we're going to force ourselves into the place.
But when your self esteem is on the floor, it's that kind of thinking just didn't work for me.
Katie: No, because you just think you think of the bigger picture and you think, well, I'm never going to get there.
Hannah: Yeah, I'm literally, if I said to, if you'd said to me in June 2022, that we would be recording episode, what is this?
Katie: 60 something?
Hannah: [00:06:00] 70 something? I would be like, you're having a fucking laugh. And I would have just got back into bed and been like, there's no way I could do that.
Katie: Yeah. I know. I know. So you almost have to just celebrate the little wins, I guess. Until you're feeling in a better place.
Hannah: Yeah, and get started and just know that idea. Like, you don't have to come up with all 70 episodes in June 2022.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: We've just come up with this now.
Katie: Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Hannah: Like, ideas come in time and you have to give them space.
Katie: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, you do. And also, like, if you, if you just, if you're expecting yourself to write 70 episodes of a podcast, it isn't going to happen, is it? You know, you just need to start with one and then, yeah, build from there.
Hannah: Exactly. And so that was one of the big takeaways. So my theory A in my brain was I'm not good enough. And there was something linked to. Like, if anybody, [00:07:00] anybody calls me out for being lazy, I'm giving away all the secrets here so you can like troll me.
Katie: Yep.
Hannah: But , that really, really upsets me.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Like I'm, I, somewhere in me believe that I'm a lazy, inherently lazy person.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: And I know that's not true. Like, yes, there are times when I need to rest and things like that, but for the most part I'm always doing something.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: But there is something in me that can't bear the idea that I. come across as lazy.
Katie: Yeah, yeah. I've got that as well.
Hannah: I don't know why.
Katie: Yeah, I think it might be like working class thing.
Hannah: Oh yeah, work ethic.
Katie: Yeah, you need to work hard to make money otherwise you're gonna die. You know?
Hannah: I mean that's..
Katie: Which is how the world works. Yeah it is.
Hannah: Like not always.
Katie: No, but not always.
Hannah: There's a huge movement towards like working smart and working part time, but making sure it all counts.
Katie: And it's not lazy if you're not doing something [00:08:00] all the time, you know.
Hannah: Yeah, and the way my brain works is I need a lot of space in order to come, like, to come and record four podcasts in the morning.
Katie: Yes, yeah.
Hannah: And, you know, come up with stuff, like I need that space, otherwise I just get frazzled. We all do. We just get burnt out. So yeah, to move from this theory of I'm not good enough, it's like, well, maybe I'm good enough to do one Instagram post.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah.
Hannah: And then from there one podcast, there was an element of being like, just chucking myself in the deep end once I decided I was ready. That was a mistake.
Katie: Yeah, that can be as well.
Hannah: You throw yourself into something and being like, I am going to prove to everybody in the world that I am good enough and then burn out.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Or mess it up.
Katie: Yeah. You put a lot of pressure on yourself, don't you? Because you think that's the only way out of it sometimes, you know, but it's not like you do just need to take it one step at a time.
Hannah: I know [00:09:00] that there's this feeling of wanting something tomorrow.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Like the urgency is quite strong when my low self, when I have low self esteem, it's like, I need to get this done yesterday.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah. My, my thing is like like everything's not good enough. It's not just like you know, you're not good enough in relationships. It can be like, you're not good enough at work and you're not good enough to your friends, you know, and it can be like one tiny little thing that trips you up that you would definitely just normally shrug off, but if you're having low self esteem, it can really affect you, you know?
Or you can think a lot about it, like, for example, like, if I made a mistake at work or something and normally I'd be like, well, I am human, we do make mistakes, it's okay, but then when you're in a moment of low self esteem, you're like, oh my god, I can't even do my job, I need to quit and, you know, just... Lie in a little ball on the floor for the rest of my life. That's how it makes you feel, you [00:10:00] know? And I, you know, I think there's part of me that knows that that's... It's negative thinking and it's not correct thinking, you know, but it doesn't stop those thoughts from happening, like it's, I guess it's about addressing those thoughts and going- that's because you've got low self esteem at the minute.
Hannah: Yeah. So do we have ideas for getting out of this?
Katie: Well, I guess it's all the stuff that you would normally do to take care of yourself. Which is such an annoying answer.
Hannah: I hate that answer.
Katie: No, but I like it.
Hannah: That's bullshit. Can I not pay somebody to give me self esteem?
Katie: I know, I know, exactly, yeah. But, like, when I've been reading about it and things, like, it does just say you need to take care of yourself until you feel better.
Like, it's just about time. So, like meditation and yoga, sort of journaling, like, and, and one thing at a time. So celebrating the little wins. So going like it, I've got up and brushed my teeth today and you know, like got dressed [00:11:00] and felt happy about the way that I looked when I in the mirror, you know?
And that, that is like a massive achievement and celebrating that.
Hannah: Mm.
Katie: And then, and then if you do start celebrating those things, like you can. It then that becomes every day and you move on to the next thing afterwards. I think that's how you-
Hannah: About building
Katie: Yeah, I think that's how you build it back up again.
Hannah: Mm hmm
Katie: But it can be so hard when you're in it.
Hannah: Oh, definitely 'cause I guess it's I mean, it's not related to depression?
Katie: I think so. Yeah, I think people who are depressed have low self esteem. I mean probably not always like..
Hannah: The two, I guess, kind of go hand in hand. I guess depression, I once read it described in the the Upward Spiral, a really great book about depression. And he described it as just kind of not, just flat lining.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Like not really feeling anything, I don't really care about anything. [00:12:00]
Katie: Yeah, exactly.
Hannah: Whereas I think probably self esteem might be more related to anxiety.
Katie: True.
Hannah: Cause that's more of a, I just feel.
Katie: Terrible about everything.
Hannah: Terrible about myself. But you might still get the highs with lows. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. So you are feeling things.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: But maybe more of the shit things.
Katie: Mm hmm. Mm. Yeah, it's a really tough one and I think comes naturally at the end of any sort of breakup. You know what, like, so on a couple of the other podcasts we've talked about there being a bit of a crisis of identity at the end of a relationship and wondering who you are outside of that relationship.
And I think naturally with that comes, like, moments where you're like, perhaps I'm not as great as I thought I was, you know, and that gives you a low self esteem.
Hannah: Definitely. It's that not being enough thing. Like we, both of us. You know, [00:13:00] you were told I don't want to live with you anymore.
Katie: I know, yeah, and for that to not have a knock, like, it was bound to have a knock on effect, wasn't it?
Hannah: Yeah, like, as much, you can self talk your way all the way to the bank, like, I am, it's him, not me. But there's still going to be something in there that's going, I wasn't enough.
Katie: Should have done something different, yeah, yeah. I guess the surprise to me is, because like, I knew that I was going to struggle coming out of the relationship with how I felt about myself in relationships. But I think what's come as the surprise is how much it's affected me in other things as well. So like I went on holiday recently and one of my friends got mildly annoyed at me, which was bound to happen when there was five of us living in a very small space for the length of time that we were.
But like, I took it so badly. I was just like, Oh my god, I'm the worst person in the absolute world.
Hannah: People can't live with me.
Katie: Yeah. Nobody can stand to be around me and [00:14:00] I need to leave for the holidays. So, I know, which is quite sad, isn't it? Because I know that that's not the case.
Hannah: It isn't the case.
Katie: No.
Hannah: What was the first thing I said to you this morning when I picked you up?
Katie: I can't remember.
Hannah: It was along the lines of, I'm so glad that you're doing this with me.
Katie: Oh yeah, that's true, you did say that, that was nice, yeah. And I know, you know, I do know deep down that I'm not a terrible person, but it's... It, it sneaks into the other part of your life and I think in order to address that you have to just take care of yourself till it goes away.
Hannah: Yeah. My thing that I'm noticing though with you is that you're an introvert.
Katie: I am.
Hannah: And you're like, introverting to the max.
Katie: I am. Doing that, yeah.
Hannah: I'm like, please come see me.
Katie: I know.
Hannah: And do things. And you're like, no.
Katie: No, I am doing that yeah.
Hannah: No, I'll not do that.
Katie: Hey, I've got plans tonight.
Hannah: Oh, and you're so excited about them.
Katie: Oh no, you're right.
Hannah: Do you think that I know [00:15:00] introverts, yes, they need to be at home, but I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be at home all the time on their own. So do you think you do need to do a bit more of making yourself do stuff?
Katie: Yeah, because, because you need the it's, you need the little wins and you can't have little wins at home by yourself really, can you? I mean I guess you can, so like I've done, I'm doing a lot of reading and things and like that's, well probably just distracting me actually. I don't dunno whether that's necessarily a good thing, but..
Hannah: No, I think sitting and take, like doing stuff that you genuinely enjoy doing is really important.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: But my version of what you are doing is I'm out all the time.
Katie: Yeah. Oh, well.
Hannah: And it's about, so over the summer I was like going through traumatic thing with one of my kids and so whenever I was on my own, I was like, I cannot be on my own in the house.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: So I literally was like pounding the pavements.
Katie: Mm-Hmm.
Hannah: Meeting loads of people, getting in the sea.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: And it can be too much.
Katie: Yeah, yeah, and I'm doing, now that I'm having something I'm struggling with, [00:16:00] I'm doing my introverted thing, which is to stay in all the time. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? I guess we probably need to, like, you needed to go easy on yourself a little bit and stay in more, and I probably need to spend some more time with some people. Because it does, it definitely does help.
Hannah: Yeah, it does. And also, you know, if I'm out all the time, you're in all the time. Are we still doing the self care bit?
Katie: Yeah. Probably not .Because it's like a crutch, isn't it? You know, just leaning on..
Hannah: Distract myself. So I was talking to Josie the other day.
Katie: Oh, yes.
Hannah: Who's been on the podcast three times. Episodes 18 and 55 were particularly excellent ones.
Katie: Good
Hannah: But she was taught, she's got a new coach and she was telling me that like a nice way to look at the week ahead and to say, right, what would a good week for me look like?
Katie: [00:17:00] Yeah.
Hannah: And try and map them out like these things have to happen. So for her, she had, she has to meal prep.
Katie: Right?
Hannah: So she spent Saturday getting all her meals ready for the week and then had a plan for like towards the end of the week when she'd run out and she said that one change made a huge difference to her whole week of feeling like she's got her shit together.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: And obviously for her nutrition's a massive thing. So that might not be as important, but equally, you know, if you're busy, you're working, you've got other demands on your time from family and friends and kids or whatever.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Making sure that you've got some meals prepped.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Might be like a real act of self care.
Katie: Absolutely.
Hannah: Like my version of that would be to be obsessive about it. Yeah. And map it out to like the nth degree and then that becomes oppressive.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: So you've got to work on a version like what would make this week easier.
Katie: [00:18:00] Yeah. I know and putting some prep in place because you're having a hard time. That's a really good idea.
Hannah: I like that and I was trying to think what mine would be. I would say having a couple of workouts and doing some yoga.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah, that would be mine as well actually. Planning to go to like two yoga classes would be, would make my week a lot better.
Hannah: Yeah. Because moving has a really big impact I think on just shifting crap energy.
Katie: Definitely.
Hannah: When I saw you on Saturday after our little yoga session on the Friday night. You were like, ah, I feel so much better for that.
Katie: I do, I always feel better after it.
Hannah: Yeah.
Katie: And I'm not making enough time for it at the minute actually, I need to find another class. So, that'll help me with my self esteem, it will, I know it will.
Hannah: Definitely.
Katie: Yeah, good idea Josie.
Hannah: Well done Josie. So yeah, just mapping out a few things that, at the end of the week you can say, this, this has been a good week because I've done these things.
Katie: Mm.
Hannah: And. Sticking to it.
Katie: Yeah, [00:19:00] there's that.
Hannah: I am like the most amazing manipulator of my own mind.
Katie: Yeah. Me too.
Hannah: So good at it. I could literally come up with a reason for anything.
Katie: Yeah. Me too. It's great, isn't it?
Hannah: So I'll be like, right, these are the things that I must do to make sure I've had a good week. Get to yoga and I'll be like, I'm too busy. I've got to go get the kids. I've got to do this, got to do that.
Katie: Loads of more important stuff.
Hannah: So making sure that you prioritise, it doesn't have to be loads of things.
Katie: No it doesn't.
Hannah: And especially going back to what I was saying about my therapist and moving from theory A to theory B, it's actually the baby steps that are important.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: And you could even just go down to like, just having a checklist for a day.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Which I think is where I was in the summer, I was like, I want to do 10, 000 steps, I want to get in the sea, everything else is a bonus.
Katie: Yeah. And then when you've done those things, it gives you a sense of achievement, which then, in turn, improves your self esteem.
Hannah: Yeah. [00:20:00] Yes, it was a bit distracting, and yes, I was addicted and obsessed. But equally...
Katie: It's kind of part of your personality, though.
Hannah: But equally, at least it was a healthy thing, and I was walking and, you know, all that kind of shit.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: So... You know, getting sunshine on your skin. That's something in the Upward Spiral book. One of the chapters is talking about getting out and making sure that you're outside.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: For a portion of the day.
Katie: I think that's something I need to do more of. Like, I don't necessarily have to be around people if I don't want. But I need to just get out because you do feel better.
Hannah: Yeah, so my version of alone time is to be outside or sitting in a coffee shop on my own. But there's still people around me.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Like I need them around me, otherwise I'm like, Oh, I've been left alone to die with bagels.
Katie: Oh, bagels.
Hannah: Oh, bagels, I love them. So I sent you this the other day and we're both kind of mulling [00:21:00] over whether we like it or not.
Katie: Oh, this bloody thing.
Hannah: And it was do these five things after 7pm and your life will never be the same.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: So number one is reflect.
Katie: That's important, some time to reflect on the day.
Hannah: I don't do that.
Katie: No, I don't do that either. My friend Christian, he's big on that, reflecting on the day.
Hannah: See, I've heard a lot about obviously doing your gratitudes and that's a big AA thing as well. Like the seven steps, it's all about gratitude and taking time to notice. What you've actually achieved and go, ah! Pat on the back.
Katie: I suppose that is important.
Hannah: Disconnecting.
Katie: Mm, putting your phone down. I do like that.
Hannah: Do you do that?
Katie: No. I should.
Hannah: Oh my god, are these things going to change our lives? We've been slagging them off and now we're like, I'm doing it tonight. Disconnecting. [00:22:00] I feel like I do all my catching up after 7pm.
Katie: I can't bear doing anything at all after 7pm, like I'm not interested, but I could do some of this stuff in the morning definitely.
Hannah: You can't disconnect in the morning.
Katie: You could if you wanted to.
Hannah: You're already disconnected, just don't reconnect.
Katie: Yeah. I had a period when I was living with my mam where I put my phone in the cupboard above her oven. Because I just didn't want to look at it and I just lived there for like a few days.
Hannah: Oh.
Katie: It was, I felt much better afterwards.
Hannah: There is a lot to be said for that because it's I know I notice when I'm doing it I'll be. Because often I'll be like right take Nancy up to bed at 6:30 and try and get her asleep for seven. Often it's not until half seven then I've got like 15 minutes to tidy the kitchen then it's on to the next kid. Read to him and then before I know it's 9pm.
Katie: Yeah
Hannah: Then I'm like, I'll just catch up on Instagram. I'll just do this that and the other and I'll probably [00:23:00] still need to do a post.
Katie: Just leave it till tomorrow.
Hannah: Oh, it's too fast. When you actually go to know what I'm gonna put my phone into sleep mode and read my book because you can't read your Kindle on your phone.
Katie: Without looking at all the notifications.
Hannah: Because your notifications will come up so you have to put it into sleep mode and say right.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: That's it now. It's very difficult.
Katie: It is very difficult. It is.
Hannah: But as soon as you do it, there's this like, release of, oh.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: I don't have to be keeping up with Mrs. Smith over there and all the stuff she's doing.
Katie: No, you really don't.
Hannah: That she probably did with the team.
Katie: You know, I love that about our, when we record a podcast, it's like, oh, lovely, I've just had 40 minutes where I haven't looked at my phone at all. Very nice.
Hannah: We've had a chat. Okay, the next one is plan for tomorrow.
Katie: Yeah, not into that.
Hannah: Don't wanna plan.
Katie: No, I don't wanna. Well, I don't wanna do it after 7:00 PM Ugh. No. Like [00:24:00] I, I, you'd already got a plan for the next day at some point. Have a quick look in the diary, see what's on, you know. But I don't want to plan for it after 7:00 PM though.
Hannah: No, I think it might do me good to look at what's on, 'cause every morning I wake up and I go, yeah, what am I meant to be doing today?
Katie: Yeah. Like, that's not a good feeling. No.
Hannah: It's really early.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: So maybe a little glance.
Katie: Yeah, okay. A little glance I'll allow.
Hannah: Breathe.
Katie: Breathe. Yes, that's good. Important. We do like breathing.
Hannah: So for a little while I was. Jambo had given me, Jambo of podcast fame number XYZ. He'd given me some acupuncture homework to do. So I wasn't getting to do it until I was in bed at like 9pm. But the nice thing was, it just helps you zone out.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: What's the word? Like you just tap out and...
Katie: Disconnect.
Hannah: Disconnect and breathe and that was really nice. [00:25:00] Although often I'd be scrolling at the same time.
Katie: No, no, that's terrible. That is why you ended up with loads of bruises all over your face.
Hannah: They've gone, it's fine.
Katie: They have gone.
Hannah: I can't imagine I can be arsed to do that at 7pm.
Katie: I actually often put a yoga nidra on, on a night to go to sleep to, and that always has you do some breathing, at least at the beginning. And I do sleep better when I do that. So that's nice. So it's like it's not yoga, you don't have to move your body, it's just like a meditation.
Hannah: Yeah. They sort of talk you, talk you down, don't they?
Katie: It's like a body scan.
Hannah: Yeah.
Katie: With like an intention at the beginning. I always feel, I've always slept better and feel better when I do that before I go to bed. So maybe that's the one thing that I'll allow after 7pm.
Hannah: Aw, it says read. That's the other one.
Katie: Read. Well, definitely into that as well. Yeah. Okay. [00:26:00] Maybe we'll have these points, but also that's a lot to expect of yourself.
Hannah: That's five whole things.
Katie: Five whole things. Yeah, no, I'm not into it.
Hannah: I suppose, like, one of them is not doing something.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Disconnecting.
Katie: Mm hmm.
Hannah: To not being on your phone or not being online.
Katie: I know, but we are attached to them, aren't we? You know, so, it would be a conscious effort to put your phone down after 7pm.
Hannah: But maybe that's what we've got to do now.
Katie: Yeah, maybe.
Hannah: We're in a new world with a self esteem pandemic.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Probably related to our little friend.
Katie: Yeah, maybe you're right.
Hannah: Okay, so it was reflect, disconnect, plan for tomorrow, breathe, read.
Katie: I'll do some of those. I'll meet you halfway.
Hannah: Nice. I was going to sing then, but I refrained.
Katie: Good.
Hannah: But as a joke from me, I was like, these are things you shouldn't do after 7pm.
Katie: Oh yeah! Let's have [00:27:00] Hannah's list of things you shouldn't do after 7pm.
Hannah: Text your ex.
Katie: Yep, definitely. Don't do that.
Hannah: Shouldn't anyway. Eat bagels.
Katie: Probably not after 7pm. It's a big, heavy, stodgy thing, a bagel, isn't it? But I'm definitely still going to do it.
Hannah: Oh, me too. So, you know, I'm going to tell you a little story here about Katie. On Sunday, when I got home, she was like, Did you find your treat? And I was like, What? Because I come in the back door, and you posted it through the front. And I got there, and she'd... Sent a little parcel through my letterbox. No one's ever posted a bagel, by the way.
Katie: I know, it was quite difficult.
Hannah: So I open this parcel and it's got four bagels and a massive cookie that looks more like a scone.
Katie: It was, yeah. Which was to celebrate Hannah being sober for six years.
Hannah: Yay! My first ever soberversary gift, so thanks Katie.
Katie: Yeah, you're very welcome.
Hannah: But then I ate a bagel, and the [00:28:00] cookie, and I had weird nightmares all night.
Katie: You're welcome!
Hannah: What the fuck was in that cookie?
Katie: Nothing special. Yeah, it's from a bakery called Pia's in North Shields that I really love.
Hannah: It was really yummy, but I would recommend don't eat those after 7pm.
Katie: Yeah, they've got some sort of onion y powder on top that's like, amazing.
Hannah: Oh maybe it was the onion powder. I wondered if it was the cookie.
Katie: Could be the cookie.
Hannah: Because it was like, a lot of chocolate.
Katie: It was.
Hannah: Scrolling TikTok! You definitely shouldn't do that. Like, Instagram's one thing, but TikTok's like, a blast of the senses.
Katie: Well.
Hannah: And it's got scary things that might turn up in your feed.
Katie: Yeah. As an 80 year old woman. I don't use TikTok . That's not a problem for me.
Hannah: Well, I don't really because I got freaked out.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: So stopped doing it. But occasionally we'll put stuff on, won't we?
Katie: That's high on our list of things not to do after 7:00 [00:29:00] PM
Hannah: I've put, do anything that isn't horizontal.
Katie: Yep. Yeah!
Hannah: Don't do that.
Katie: No.
Hannah: Unless it's going to toast a bagel. No, you're not meant to be eating bagels.
Katie: No I'm not meant to be eating bagels, yeah.
Hannah: And then I said read Alien porn, but actually it's quite fun.
Katie: Yeah, and so, can you just recap the full list for me, please?
Hannah: Absolutely. It is, okay, don't, text your ex, eat bagels, scroll TikTok, do anything that isn't horizontal, read alien porn, but I actually disagree with that last one, I'm going to tell you, a book to read.
Katie: Okay. Cause, see, when I look at that list, I think that's the list of things that you like to do after 7pm.
Hannah: Yeah, but I've got to stop doing it, right?
Katie: Yeah, okay. Okay. Okay.
Hannah: Right?
Katie: Yeah. You're right. We're getting an alien porn recommendation, that's what we're waiting for, yeah.
Hannah: Yes. I can't remember what it is called, because it's gone from my thing, but it's something, it's barba barbarian [00:30:00] ice planet or something?
Katie: We'll link to it in the show notes.
Hannah: By Ruby Dixon. It was very entertaining.
Katie: You can't hear this but I'm making like a mildly disgusted face.
Hannah: Oh, it was quite nice. It was like a sexy version of Beauty and the Beast.
Katie: But there were aliens.
Hannah: He's an alien, she's a girl.
Katie: Right.
Hannah: He's a big blue alien.
Katie: Interplanetary.
Hannah: It was quite sweet. I liked it. Bit sexy.
Katie: What's this podcast about again?
Hannah: Self esteem. Read something you enjoy.
Katie: Yeah, okay.
Hannah: And if you enjoy alien porn, crack on.
Katie: Yeah. Good advice. Thanks, Han.
Hannah: Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, I think something else for self esteem is distracting. I mean, I know we revert back to this [00:31:00] quite a bit on this podcast, but sitting with your feelings is a massive part of it. And maybe you do just sit there and cry and go, I'm a fuck up and all of that stuff. You kind of need to get that out.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Otherwise it's going to live somewhere in you. It's an energy.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: So if you're just pretending and carrying on and being like everything's fine, everything's fine, we're gonna crack on, it's getting stuck somewhere.
Katie: Well that's exactly what I did before I went on holiday. Like I was like everything's fine, everything's fine, I'm gonna be okay. Oh it's not okay. Like, that's what happens when you ignore it.
Hannah: And then you need someone like me to come and do body work on you, and I have to release it all.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: It's not great.
Katie: No.
Hannah: It's the worst way. It's really good. It's an interesting experience, but yeah, I do think sitting with stuff when you're feeling in a certain way, you've got to let it out. And like I say, if you make plans, [00:32:00] don't then talk yourself out of them.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: You've got to commit. Which I am not good at, but.
Katie: Yeah, cause you, you feel better afterwards. You always do.
Hannah: If you've gone like, this is my perfect week and it has these things in it- don't talk yourself out of doing them.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Cause you will, your brain will go you don't need to do this. You'll feel better if you don't. You'll feel better if you eat this bagel. You'll feel better if you lie in bed.
Katie: Yeah. And if I'm like, sometimes I'm like, Oh, I'm too tired to go to yoga. I can't, I can't do it, like I don't have the energy. I'll feel better if I don't because I'm too tired already. And I, that is, like I've never been to a yoga class and been like, that was too exhausting, I wish I didn't do it. Like, that's not what yoga is.
Hannah: No, you always feel better afterwards.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: It's the same with getting in the sea, like you never regret a dip. It doesn't matter how cold it is.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Like yesterday it was pissing freezing.
Katie: [00:33:00] Yeah.
Hannah: But I'm connected with friends. Got the cold water vibe and feeling, did some walking, you know, there was nothing bad about that situation.
Katie: Yeah, good.
Hannah: And I'd had some terrible news, Katie.
Katie: Oh no, what's the matter?
Hannah: One of our passports only had two months left on it, so we can't go on holiday. So, as of this recording, it would have been tomorrow.
Katie: Aww.
Hannah: So we were meant to be going to Mallorca, and I had... I just hadn't checked.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Just assumed it was fine.
Katie: That could happen to anybody though.
Hannah: I know. But the good thing is, is that I think, I think it was a good test of where my self esteem is right now.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: So I had to cry, I had the panicky like, what an absolute fuck up, I can't believe I've done this.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: You're so wasteful and lazy. All of that stuff. To then quite quickly be like, It's alright.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: I've got fucking loads of things going [00:34:00] on.
Katie: Yeah. That's, that's when you know you're feeling okay.
Hannah: Yeah. And in the past, so once I did a speed awareness course, accidentally didn't sign in properly.
Katie: Ah.
Hannah: And then discovered about half an hour later while I was sitting there waiting for this course to start that I hadn't clicked the button and I couldn't join it.
Katie: Right.
Hannah: And I was like, it's going to affect my insurance, I'm going to get points on my license, and I had a full blown panic attack for like the rest of the day.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Completely knocked me. When actually the next day I just called them and said I couldn't get in and they were like that's fine, you can do the next one.
Katie: Yeah, yeah, I know, but we catastrophize, that's what we do when we're not feeling great.
Hannah: So that's like, two, maybe like a year and a half ago, that's how I responded to fucking something up.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Yesterday I was able to go, Okay, that's not my deal.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: But there's a lot going on, I'm only human, and it is okay, and I'm in a very fortunate [00:35:00] position in that I could find stuff for us to do and afford to get it.
Katie: Mm hmm. Yeah, great.
Hannah: So checking my privileges there, I was able to go, You've got nothing to worry about.
Katie: Yeah, yeah.
Hannah: And I told my kids, and they were okay.
Katie: Yeah, good. Yeah.
Hannah: You know, all they really want to do is go away with me and that's what we're doing.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Yes. It's not in the Sun. Yes, I'm gonna have to cook and find food and, you know in my head I was like all inclusive. It was just like a Billy basic package, but I didn't care because it had a pool the Sun and all inclusive
Katie: Yeah. And then it would have been a break for you as well, which it's not going to be now, but that's, that's not the priority. The priority is making sure the kids have had a holiday, yeah.
Hannah: Exactly. So it's not perfect, but we've come up with a solution, they're okay, I don't need to beat myself up.
Katie: No, not at all. That's great, I'm really pleased that that's the reaction that you've had to that.
Hannah: Yeah, I was interested to see it and obviously I am still pissed off at [00:36:00] myself and I do want to learn lessons
Katie: Mm hmm.
Hannah: Because it is hugely wasteful.
Katie: Mm hmm.
Hannah: But equally a friend of mine is now gonna go on that holiday
Katie: Yeah, good.
Hannah: It was like a really lovely thing to be able to be like you can have that.
Katie: Yeah
Hannah: And go and get a rest yourself so yeah, hopefully lessons learned.
Katie: Yeah, yeah. I know, but that could have happened to anybody.
Hannah: And it has, like loads of people reached out on Instagram going, Yeah, that's happened to us. Not ideal, but it was a nice test of my self esteem, to go, I can actually, like I have moved on enough now.
Katie: Yes. I can deal with things like this.
Hannah: I can deal with it. It's not perfect, but it's okay.
Katie: Yeah, good.
Hannah: So, yeah. And I think all of that has come from just taking action. And there'll be, and it's not, again, it's not linear. Some days you feel like shit, other days you don't.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Depends where you are in your cycle.
Katie: Yeah, it does, yeah.
Hannah: If this had been last week, and I was ovulating.
Katie: Yeah, might [00:37:00] have had a meltdown.
Hannah: I might have had a completely different response.
Katie: Yeah, yeah.
Hannah: Oh, maiden.
Katie: I know, never mind her.
Hannah: She just wants someone to come and rescue me.
Katie: Oh I know.
Hannah: Never mind. It's fine, I rescued myself.
Katie: Yeah, you did.
Hannah: Okay. I think that's sort of all I really have to say.
Katie: Yeah, so, I guess I'll keep you guys up to date. Like, I'm okay, don't worry. I'm hoping that my self esteem will improve soon. But I think that even the fact that I've noticed that it's affecting things and like that I'm feeling a bit low at the minute is good progress because I would have just swept that under the rug and tried to get on with things before.
Hannah: Yeah, and you're noticing when and how it's affecting you?
Katie: Yeah, exactly.
Hannah: It's almost like you're observing your emotions rather than Being in it.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: As much, which I find helpful to look at it that way around.
Katie: Definitely.
Hannah: Like, oh, I feel like this on those days. [00:38:00]
Katie: Isn't that interesting?
Hannah: That thing triggered this. So I've got a friend who always says never waste a trigger. Like, why am I triggered?
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: What is it about this situation that's pissing me off specifically? And understanding ourselves can, I personally think, can't do any harm ever.
Katie: Mm hmm. I agree.
Hannah: And builds self esteem, so you can be like, Yeah, I'm a bit messy and I'm a bit this, that and the other and forgetful and don't check all the boxes.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Tick all the, whatever it is, cross all the T's.
Katie: Mm.
Hannah: But I've got other redeeming qualities.
Katie: Yeah, exactly. That's okay.
Hannah: Yeah.
Katie: Yeah.
Hannah: Aw, well I hope that has been slightly helpful.
Katie: I think so, yeah. I always like to chat it through with you and all of the people that listen to this.
Hannah: If you have any thoughts for Katie and
Katie: Yeah, thanks.
Hannah: Or you relate hard on any of these issues and self esteem, I think, especially post breakup, I just remember feeling like the slightest [00:39:00] mistake was just evidence that I am terrible.
Katie: Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm in at the minute.
Hannah: Yeah.
Katie: But I know it's going to pass. And maybe I'll, you know, read some alien porn and I'll feel better about it.
Hannah: I can't guarantee that, but it will be entertaining.
Katie: Okay, great.
Hannah: Aww, well I love you lots.
Katie: Yeah, I love you too.
Hannah: And I really appreciate you being here and sharing all of that with us.
Katie: Thank you, thank you for having me and thank you for letting me share.
Hannah: You are welcome. Bye!
Katie: Bye now!
Hannah: Alright then, thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you next time for another episode of Happily Ever After with me, Hannah Harvey. It would be wonderful if you could leave a review and subscribe! And of course, if you have a friend who might enjoy this episode, please do pass it on. For anything else, you can get in touch with me either through Instagram, at Mumsdays, or my website, mumsdays. com.
