Hello, and welcome to happily ever after. It's me, Hannah. And today I'm joined by one of my lovely new friends, Lou.
Hi, Lou, thanks for coming on.
Thank you for having me.
I'm very excited to talk to you.
What are we gonna talk about Hannah?
Well, this is the last episode that I'm going to do for a little while.
But in general, I'm taking my first ever break. Like right now we're recording it, and we've done something like 70 episodes. So I'm guessing this will be like 74 or 75. And I've never taken a break. And I'm like,
I'm ready for a break. But I thought it'd be lush to have you on because the two of us are going to work together in the new year and do a workshop. But can you tell me a little bit about like your background? Before we talk about what we're going to do in the new year after?
Yes, yeah, I can. I.. How far back would you like me to go?
Don't spare any details?
Well, I so I did my degree in psychology, which was not my first choice.
I did not know this.
Yeah, at the University of York, I did my my degree in psychology, and I wanted to be an artist or a designer. And that didn't work. It didn't play out that way. So I went to do my psychology degree. And I chose it as my second option, because psychology’s strapline is the science of behaviour. And I've always been interested in what motivates people, kind of what makes them tick. So yeah, I went and did my degree in psychology. And then
My mind is literally blown. I feel like every conversation we've ever had now, I'm like, I may as well not. Because I like to pretend I'm a psychologist, but obviously, I'm not.
We’re all psychologists, really. And that is like a common saying about design is that we're all designers, we're all scientists, I think like lots of us use these kinds of skills and approaches all the time, whether we call it that or not. Because that's how our brains work, just trying to figure stuff out.
Yeah, and I guess some people are more prone to naturally read books that might lead you to understand how the brain works. And
Exactly, and I think now, like pop psychology, popular psychology is just so you know, there's huge areas of bookstores devoted to it. So a lot of us are reading it, a lot of the time, we're exposed to it a lot of the time, as well as things that we watch Instagram, it is literally everywhere now. So yeah, that's where I started. But then I had a somewhat like circuitous route to what I'm doing now. Because I got really sick for a while. And it took me a long time to recover from that. And it made me realise that the path that I was on actually was not the path that I wanted to take. Because I was going to go and be an academic in psychology and study the science of reading, the psychology of reading. But ultimately, that was not my calling. And I was not a good fit for it. So I had some time away. And then I tried out lots of different things. And I was really lucky that I found my first kind of proper job living in Cambridge, where I worked on a self advocacy project for people with learning disabilities. And it was just such an amazing place to be it was very creative. It was very progressive, it was doing things that lots of other places weren't doing at that time. And it was all aimed at people who were institutionalised in some way. So maybe they hadn't been staying in a residential institution. But they'd been in maybe the special school system for a long time, a lot of the activities they'd done had been kind of specifically designed for people with learning disabilities. And so their friend group, their social group, their activities were quite limited and quite small. And there wasn't a lot of choice necessarily, in a lot of the settings they were in. That's quite different now. But back then, in the early 2000s, that wasn't necessarily the case. And the project that I worked on was there specifically to help people design a life in the community, when they'd maybe never lived in the community before. So they didn't really know what they liked what they didn't like, you know, if you say to someone, how do you want to spend your week that would just be a blank look, and a blank page. And so I learned all these tools about like
I was gonna say, that’s like..
How do you fill that page?
And even now I think that's massive.
You know, you don’t- I guess we probably take it for granted that we have a certain autonomy over what we're going to do with our week. But things like motherhood are a massive spanner in the work of what you thought you were going to do, especially with the first I remember being like, my life is going to be exactly the same when this baby comes along, and it'll just slot in to what we're doing. And that doesn't happen.
No, because it’s a relationship, right? So, it's not just about you. It's about them, too. Yeah, so that was like my first big transition that I went through in life. And I just turned out that where I landed on my feet with this job that I had, learning all these tools about how you work out what you like, and what you don't. And then once you've tried lots of things and got a picture of what you want, how do you actually make that happened? Were really helpful for myself too in figuring out, okay, I actually really love this job now. So I thought I was on a track before that was exactly what I wanted to do. It turned out it wasn't the case. Now I'm doing something I love. What does that mean, for the future? I had these tools that could help me with that, although I didn't need to use them just yet. Dun dun dunn.
So in the scale of like this timeline. When was it that you got ill? Before you did the advocacy stuff?
Okay. So you, you were ill. You got better?
Yeah. Yeah. It took like a year to get better. Yeah.
And then went on to this new project?
Yeah, I did a bit of work. I did some temping. I did. I thought I wanted to be a speech and language therapist for a while. And I went to work as a speech and language therapy assistant. But I realised that I didn't fit in the NHS, that wasn't a great place for me either. So yeah, I kind of just stumbled upon this job advert for this role. And it was a system project leader. So I had a certain amount of responsibility, but no direct line management, which turns out, was a perfect fit for me. And I was kind of responsible for upping everyone's game basically like working out what motivates them, working out how things worked well, and when they didn't work well. And we were growing the project into new areas, so helping new team members to learn what the approach was, how it worked, so that they could apply it in a new location.
And so fast forward to now.
You’ve got a little boy.
And you live in the Northeast?
And you are coaching?
So how did that end up happening?
How did I get here? So after about two years, at the- this role, working with people with learning disabilities, and realising that what I really love doing is enabling choices. And, and helping people see, like, often, what I've come to realise is people think there is only one option or two options in front of them. And what I'm really good at is helping them to see that actually, there's a lot more options than that, not in an overwhelming way, but in quite a freeing way. But after two years being there, the economic crash happened, there was a bit of a delayed impact on the charity sector, because a lot of charities work on grant funds. So they were grants from running for like two years. But then when they ended, it was like falling off a cliff. So the team, almost all of my team, and by now, my dear friends were put at risk of redundancy. And the atmosphere where we were working changed overnight. And it was really difficult. It was no longer as fun as it had been. Everyone was suddenly kind of worried. There's this great sense of uncertainty. And the little group of us started to meet, we just said, like, why don't we meet up for food, and to have a chat, once, once a month. And so we started to do that. And we talked about, like, what our hopes were for the future. We, you know, had a fair amount of time talking about how crap everything was in the current moment. And how frustrated we were with everything. But we also could talk about actually what do we want from the future. And we started to call those meetups ‘change the world’ gang meetings, and we each brought food, shared the food that we brought, and then had a conversation around what we wanted to do from there. And that led me on quite a journey. That is sort of like how long have you got right now. But ultimately, we set up our own nonprofit called the You Can Hub. And its mission was to help people turn the impossible into possible for themselves. And we did genuinely want to want to change the world. But we realise that the way to change the world is to start with yourself, change yourself first, understand yourself better first, and the rest will follow. And it's kind of contagious actually. When you start doing it people around you want to have a little bit of that magic too.
Speaker 1 9:47
Definitely. I think- so the story of you and I meeting was.. I was getting in the sea a lot at the time. It was about a month after I'd split up with a guy who really broke my heart. So I started getting in the sea. Then I had this one day where I just had a bit of a breakdown. So I was sitting by the sea I was meditating, had this weird epiphany, which scared me. And then I went for a really long walk. And I bumped into somebody who ended up introducing you to me. And then I also bumped into Ali, who's also in our like, new friendship group. Over a bin fire of all things, like if that's not a sign that my life was about to change, I don't know what it is. It was like the two of you came into my life. And then the third part of our group was sea dipping Katie, as opposed to podcast Katie. And we've just started this lovely little group. But yeah, you. I think we were probably always destined to meet because you also know Jambo. Who is my yoga teacher. And you still work with him?
On a monthly basis.
Yeah. When I was living in Cambridge, I discovered Forrest Yoga, which is forest with two R's. So it's not like yoga in the woods, although I think that is like on my bucket list is to do Forrest Yoga in the woods.
That'd be so nice.
But yeah, Forrest named for Anna Forrest. And the first class that I went to, I had an assist from my teacher who's called Eir in Bow Pose. And it just felt so magical and expansive. And it was this beautiful combination of strength and flexibility. That I just knew that I'd found my, my yoga. Yeah. And I've been doing yoga for like, a really long time. So it took me about 10 years to find my yoga. But yeah, it is just the exact right type of yoga for me. I love how each class starts with an intention. I love how you start with core strength before you do anything else. Which reminds me of priming, which we'll talk about a bit when we talk more about vision boards and visualisation. But yeah, Eir’s teacher was Jambo and Jambo is your teacher. And I've done -I’ve brought a really old vision board with me, which we'll look at in a bit. And it has pictures on it of the sea and the beach from when we were living in Cambridge. And this vision board I did probably about it was before we moved into the house before this one, so it must be like six, seven years old. So there was always this dream of moving by the sea. And, yeah, what's quite magical is that as we moved here last year, from Cambridge, you were starting up Forrest classes here where they hadn't been before. And I went to my first yoga retreat since my son was born in June, and that's where I met the person that said, Oh, you're into Forrest. You should meet Hannah.
Yeah. And that’s who I bumped into that day. Yeah. Ooo, so yeah, you came along to class. And then we went for coffee. And it was that very first coffee, where I'm like, Oh, my God, I need loads more Lou in my life.
I was like, I need more Hannah in my life.
Like it definitely is infectious. Just, I find a lot of the way you work really inspiring as well, like a lot of space for making sure that you're healthy enough to show up for your clients.
Yeah, I think I know a lot about burnout. That's one of the other things I know a lot about, because I've had so much experience of it. And the health condition that I have is fluid. So sometimes I'm well sometimes I’m not, it's chronic, which means it's long term, I'll probably live with it for my whole life. And so I've had a lot of phases of essentially burnout and then recovery. So yeah, it might not be the lesson that I've wanted to learn in life, but it's the one that I've got. Yeah, I like helping people with that through my coaching. There's almost always a strand of figuring out how do you want to live your life and do the work that you want to do. Not just what do you want to do. How do you want to use your energy? How do you want it to feel? That's just as important as like any bucket list of what you want to achieve.
Yeah. I find I don't know. It's like, you go through periods of being like, right, I should, should, should, should should. And you're on this like real treadmill. So particularly, like I absolutely love the podcast. Like coming and doing this. It's not really a hardship at all, but it does take a lot of preparation and a lot of brain power. And when you're really fixated on something, especially someone like me, I can be quite single minded and addictive with things like getting in the sea every day. That I can end up going down one route and then forget that I need to breathe.
Yeah, I think what you're talking about is like routines and habits, like it's really nice to get into a rhythm in our bodies like that. And as a mum to a toddler, right now, I also know like toddlers like that. It's something that we like from being quite small. But there's this kind of balance between a habit that serving you and a habit, that's not. And it takes time to set up a new habit. And often approaches like the one you used with the sea dipping where you commit to do it for a certain amount of time. And you maybe attach it to a habit you've already got work really well at changing a behaviour and committing to doing something new and sticking to it. Which is a little bit of a different approach to say, a New Year's resolution. It's not just saying I want to do this thing next year, it's saying I'm going to do this thing every day, because I think it's going to make me happy. And maybe it does make you happy when you keep going. Maybe it doesn't. And you need to just say actually, in trying this thing, I've learned that it's not for me. But even if it makes you happy in the beginning, eventually it can feel like a bit of a trap, right?
Yeah, definitely. I think towards the end, I was like, it's getting colder. I'm planning everything around, making sure I’m getting in the sea. And I just felt like I'd learned the lessons that I needed. And I've met the right people. And it had definitely been a real gift. But when I dropped it, I then dropped walking. And I don't know got obsessed with thinking right, I need to get this book written. So I'm gonna focus all my energy on that. But even in books, like- have you ever read The One Thing?
Um, no, I haven't.
Oh it's great. But it's along the lines of focus on one thing at a time instead of trying to do everything at once. But even when you do that, he's like, don't do it for more than four hours a day, though.
Whereas I'm like, right, going into this book. I'll see you on Tuesday.
Yes, my mum has a saying that she uses like more about food, but I think it's probably just general baby boomer wisdom, which is everything in moderation.
Oh I fucking hate that though. I’m trying but I don't know how to moderate.
But it also feels a bit medicinal somehow, right. Like it's kind of almost postwar. ideology, philosophy. So those things always tend to feel like a bit medicinal and not so fun. So, yeah, some of this, I think is about how you gamify things. So it fools your brain into feeling like you're having fun. Moderation is hard for sure. Yeah. I agree with that.
I just seem to struggle to get into anything if I don't have space. Even rest. I’m like, I can't rest, because I haven't got the whole day to do it.
Yeah, like I feel you on that. Yeah, I've sort of been in that boat before. One of the things that I've been learning this year with Jambo actually is micro resting. So if you've got a minute, can you close your eyes and do some deep breathing for a minute? Can you set a timer for four minutes and you know, do some alternate nostril breathing if you're a yogi, or just some box breathing? Where you breathe in for four, pause for four, breathe out for four, pause for four. Just do a few rounds of that. That’s- I'll just stare out of the window for a few minutes.
Yeah, like I'd stopped doing that. I used to be a big advocate of just staring out the window. Yeah, it's weird. So I had this like moment of burnout over the weekend where I was like, I have to stop. Because it just felt too overwhelming.
But just the act of doing that and having a lovely chat with podcast Katie made me feel better. So then the next day I’m suddenly like- I feel creative again now?
Yes. Do you think that… a lot of people I'm talking at the moment are feeling very overwhelmed. Does, is, that connect with how you were feeling at the weekend? Do you think?
Yeah, I think it’s… so ever since we had that mess up with the passports and we couldn't go on holiday. Yeah, I think I've slipped into being like, you're not a very good mother. Because of that mistake, and I don't think I’d- that was a subconscious feeling of just not good enough. And, you know, I threw quite a lot at the holiday in order to make sure that they had a good time. But I just felt like bleurgh. It was really it was an effort from start to finish. It was not a rest.
It wasn't a rest and you didn't enjoy it.
I didn't enjoy it. Like, there were bits that were lovely, but it felt like a bit of a battle.
And you were supposed to go somewhere else.
And we were supposed to go somewhere else, I'm trying to make it up to them that we're not going to this other place. But in doing so created new problems.
So there's a lot there about your expectations, their expectations, your expectations of what their expectations are, whether or not they're true or not.
And these are kind of like the games our brain likes to play.
And to get over that, I was doing things like eating just rubbish, to make myself feel better over the holiday. And then in my head, I was going, but it's okay. Because when I get home, the kids will go to the dads, and I will then spend the next four days writing my book and eating well. And then I'll feel better again.
And did you? Do that?
I did do it. It was a lot.
But I think it started that spiral of being like, there's just too much. Too much on.
I think we think of change as like flicking a switch. And I think that's really relevant for you and anyone who co parents, because you're spending part of your day to day life in one world when the kids are around, and then the other half in a different world when the kids aren't around.
And every time that happens, you're all going through a transition, because things are different than they were the day before with whatever they were doing.
They're in a different place. There may be slightly different rules. It takes time for those transitions to happen. And we're not that great as, as humans, at allowing for that change to happen and anticipating it and creating space for it. We- Our expectation is, well, we're here now. We’ve flicked the switch. You know, we don't need to do anything or think anything about what's just happened. But in the background, our brains will be going hang on. Everything's different than it was yesterday.
That is 100%. Yeah, I always say to people, the hardest bit of co parenting is that transition. Because the kids do it too. Like they'll arrive. And almost certainly there'll be big emotions and big tears.
And it's almost like preparing for trauma every time they arrive. So it's the trauma of them coming in and suddenly like taking over everything.
But you're also like, I'm so pleased to see you.
And then you get it the other side when they leave and you're like, it's like you're constantly having your it's that energetic connect being stretched
You crave that space, but you miss them.
Yeah. And you feel guilty for wanting it. And- but I've got to make every second count. That they're away. Because when they come back, I meant to be fully focused on them.
But then I was also told some home truths around the fact that when I'm with them, I'm using my phone too much. Because I'm also trying to work. And it's like, right, everything can fuck off. I need to focus on what's important, which is making sure my kids are okay, making sure I'm okay. And then regroup. Yes. So which leads me nicely to Merry Christmas by the way.
It’s so close now, isn't it? And I think that I mean, this is a great time of year to be talking about eating rubbish, isn't it? Because everyone's doing it, there's so many invites out to party, it's been cold, like there's that Hurkle Durkle, want to hibernate, which also usually includes like wanting to eat all of the comfort food all at once. That's a big part of it. And I think when we've got those big spikes in blood sugar, blood fats, our body has to respond to those. And I feel like in my body that my emotions take a hit as well.
We see people maybe that we have we don't see normally. We get together with family in a way that we probably don't normally the rest of the year. There's all this new stuff happening.
And new things everywhere.
Yes. So it's a great time to think about grounding. And that's maybe something to think about, you know, when the kids come back to your house, what do you do? What's the first thing you do? Can you do something? Can you talk to them about what that might be? So it's sort of the same or similar each time? And it's like kind of going, okay. We you were there. I was here on my own. Now we're all here. Let's just ground in this moment together and you don't have to use that language with them necessarily. It's just maybe picking an activity. Yeah, I think an activity that helps them go- Oh, yeah, like we're here now. And there's space for us to have emotional reactions if we need to.
Yeah. Like almost always once there's been a big release, everyone then feels better. Like they need that moment to cry. And when it comes I’m like, oh good they’re crying now, going and have a little cry, and then you'll feel better for it.
It's like a weather front that you have to move through.
Yeah, like you say, giving space for that and just knowing it's gonna happen, but we're okay. We’ll breath.
And it's also what you're not doing. So like,
Yeah, don't immediately run off to do something with my parents, for example.
Absolutely. Don't book things in for that time when they've just arrived. It’s just about being in the house or near the house.
And reassuring them that it's perfectly fine to go and have a cry.
Like, it's it's good. Things- like all sorts of different hormones are released, aren't they?
So my general approach to Christmas is, I'm just going to try and enjoy this. And enjoy being with my kids- try and make it sound like it's this awful.. I'm going to try my best.
My Christmas resolution is to have fun with my kids.
I will try and have fun. And do some puzzles. But going into the new year, I can put a lot of pressure on myself to be like, right. I'm going to eat shit this week. Because next week, it's New Year. And I'm going to take the world by storm, and I've got this, that and the other thing to do. How can I reframe it? Please make it better for me.
Well, I think the first thing is, you don't have to change it. I think that's the first thing. It doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. I think that one of the downsides of the kind of pop psychology and wellbeing movement that's part of our culture now is that we're often in a fix it mindset. You know, there's a way to do things that is doing things right. And I just need to fix everything, and then it would all be fine. But one option is things just continue as they are, as they have in Christmases before. And that's okay. At least you know what you're in for and what you're expecting, right.
So that's kind of your first point is nothing actually has to change. And then I think the second thing is, what actually do I want to be different? How will I behave in this vision I have in my head? That means that I will probably enjoy it more. Does that mean, I'm putting my phone down? Does that mean you'll enjoy it more? What are the things that mean that actually in the moment you enjoy it more?
I think probably putting a focus on making sure I get out. It's really important for me. Because it can be really easy to be like, oh, let's just stay home and go on your separate devices. And I'll sit here and eat bagels in survival mode. So being like, actually, my need is we'll walk through the park every day. And I'll feel better for that. And making a commitment to do that kind of thing, rather than just surviving it.
And you can have that conversation with your kids as well. They’re old enough now that you can say, what do you need each day? And have a dialogue and make an agreement together between the three of you of like, Okay, we're gonna go outside every day, and maybe add some other things in that mix to that they come up with.
Definitely. And then going into New Year, you and I have got a workshop planned, which I'm super excited for. So that is the sixth of January, in Whitley Bay. So any local people, please do join us. But the plan is we'll do restorative yoga to kind of set intentions. And then you're going to lead us in vision boarding.
We're gonna make some vision boards. Yeah, exactly.
Which I'm really excited about.
Yeah, so I mentioned before that the reason I fell in love with Forrest Yoga, or one of the reasons is because you always set an intention at the start of the class. And I think that aligns really closely with the way that I work as a coach and helping people and the way that I found helps me in my life is setting an intent first, what am I actually wanting to get out of whatever change I'm making? Or sometimes change happens to us, right? Like, the pandemic is a really recent example if that change happened to us, how do we want things to feel as that change is happening? So with Christmas coming, you might choose your intent. How do I want to feel each day. And that's your main focus. And a lot of what we've been talking about is this relationship between what we think what we feel and how we behave. And that's almost like a cycle. So we can change any one of the things in that cycle, changing how you feel is pretty hard. I don't know if you’ve tried to do that before.
I will not feel angry.
I’m doing my best not to feel like that’s an absolute twat
Lou: Yeah, that's exactly it. Doesn't really work so well. I don't tend to work on that one so much in its own right, but you can influence it through the other ones. You can change how you think and how you behave.
Hannah: And changing those things ultimately changes how you feel.
Lou: Exactly. Yes. That is the magic of your brain- is if you change your behaviour, you'll probably change how you think and you'll change how you feel. So if you decide I'm going to go outside every day for the kind of, you know, ten days of the holiday season, that will probably change how you think and change how you feel.
Lou: Um, you can also change how you feel and how you behave by changing how you think. And that's where vision boards come in. And I've brought a couple here. I know for people listening in, they might not be able to see them.
Hannah: This will go on a reel on Instagram though,
Lou: For the benefit of Instagram. Here's one of my old vision boards from I think 6 or 7 years ago, and it's basically a massive piece of paper and I've, um, torn up loads of images from different magazines, um, and just stuck them down. And I remember doing this, I was babysitting for a friend's kid, and she stuck a leaf on, which is now very brown and kind of, um, and that was really nice, actually, because she could see, obviously, that we were out in the garden when we did it. We were out in nature. And that was also a lot of what was reflected on my board. And she stuck some images down too that she took home. And the reason the moon is in the middle is because I wanted to live more seasonally in kind of alignment with the seasons, and there's lots of other things on there, like colourful, healthy food. Um, there's time with friends and family. There's something on here. Maybe it's this one where there's someone playing a guitar because my husband plays guitar. We play music quite a lot with his family. Um, there's bare feet on the beach and the sea. Um, so this was back when I was living in Cambridge, which is about as far from the sea as you can get long before, um, we moved here. So that's one example of a vision board. And I've brought a digital one too, that I printed out, because you can also make it, um, on an app, say like Canva, you can capture digital images and cut and paste them all together and then have it printed out. And the idea of vision boarding is that you can trick your brain because it doesn't know the difference between what's real and what's imaginary. Um, so this is focusing on that part of the cycle, how I feel, how I behave, how I think it's focusing on the how I think part. And you use the vision board once you've created it as a kind of primer, so you can look at it every day, it influences how you think, and that then changes how you behave, so that you're more likely to make decisions and do things that, um, turn the vision board into reality.
Hannah: Um, I love that. It's like, I know it's a tool for manifesting and things like that, but manifesting is just making something come true.
Lou: Yeah, and I think manifesting is like quite an overused word now, and it sounds really spiritual. And it can be, if that's what you want it to be. But it's also grounded in science. Like there's lots of people who use visualisation, which vision boarding is an example to help them to, to make it more likely that they'll achieve their goals and do the things that they want to do. So elite athletes use them. People who've won gold medals. Um, Arnold Schwarzenegger, I think, has used it quite a lot, whether he quite visualised being the Terminator or not. I'm not sure. Um, but he used it in wanting to be an actor and also wanting to become a politician. And Oprah is like a really big, um, famous example of someone who talks about it quite, quite a lot. But there are studies that show that, yeah, if you spend time visualising a more, um, a future that's in line with what you want, you'll feel calmer and it's more likely to happen.
Hannah: Yeah. I love it. I can't wait for this evening. It's going to be incredible. So that's the 6th of January. If anybody wants to come and join us, send me a message.
Lou: Yeah. And it's basically like crafting. We're just gonna.
Hannah: We're gonna do some as we like. Very.
Hannah: Look at pictures we like. Cut them out. Stick them together, have some nice- something to drink.
Hannah: Yeah, I do some very gentle laying down style yoga beforehand where we'll do loads of breathing to try and tap into intuition and what we really what, what really matters, not what we think matters. So kind of overriding that bit of the brain, which is like, you should be doing this, but actually tap into what do we feel? What would make us feel good?
Lou: Yeah. And it's going to be such a useful slowing down moment. So when I first had my experience of burnout and illness and coming back to recovery, I thought recovery was all about achieving a set state. Like, okay, this is the right amount of activity and the right type of activity for me to do all the time. And it became very quickly clear that, um, that is not really how it works, because every day we have different amounts of energy levels. We feel different. There's lots of different stuff happening around us. And I think the Christmas holiday season, like even if you don't celebrate Christmas for lots of people, it's just a really busy time of year. The energy around us..
Hannah: I was going to say, collective energy is nuts.
Lou: Yes. Of just rush and busyness and trying to get everything done and trying to do it all right, so that everyone's happy. Um, but then having that space in January to slow down, breathe, kind of give our nervous system some love with some beautiful Forrest inspired restorative yoga. Um. And then. Yeah. Listen, listen to what we think we want from 2024 and craft a beautiful image to take home that supports that.
Hannah: Yay! Well, I can't wait. Thank you so much Lou for coming in.
Lou: You're welcome.
Hannah: I feel calmer already.
Lou: Oh, I'm so glad.
Hannah: That has genuinely been really helpful. Like, I feel like I've really got a good plan for what I'm going to do for the holidays. Um, so. Yeah. Thank you.